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(uplifting music)

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Mary Loder- Welcome to Course Stories,

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produced by the Instructional Design

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and New Media team of EdPlus
at Arizona State University.

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In this podcast,

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we tell an array of course design stories,

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alongside other ASU online
designers and faculty.

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On today's Course Story...

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Michelle Stuckey- We really want them to move away

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from thinking about, like,

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the five-paragraph generic academic essay,

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and to really engage
with writing assignments

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where they are making knowledge

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about topics that are interesting to them.

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So they're the ones that kind
of steering their learning

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in a lot of ways

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by doing independent research

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on things that are important
to them and their communities.

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So our curriculum is really focused

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on community-engaged writing and research.

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We wanna prepare students

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to be 21st century digital communicators.

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Now, back in 2015,

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this sounded a little more radical

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than it does almost 10 years later,

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because now we're almost
a quarter of the way

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into the 21st century,

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but what I mean by that

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is to really be engaged with
digital writing experiences.

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(uplifting music)

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Mary- Hi, I'm Mary Loder,

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an instructional designer from ASU Online.

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Elizabeth Blythe-Lee- I'm Elizabeth Blythe,

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a senior instructional designer
at Arizona State University.

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Ricardo Leone- I'm Ricardo Leone.

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I'm a media specialist at the same place.

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Mary - Yeah, we work together.

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Ricardo - Let's get on with the show.

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Mary- Okay.

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Ricardo - Welcome to Season 5 of Course Stories,

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featuring me, Ricardo Leon, and?

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Mary - Mary Loder.

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- And?

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Elizabeth - Lizzie Blythe.

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Ricardo - And?
Elizabeth - I forgot my new last name.

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Michael Miller- And Michael Miller, woo-hoo!

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Ricardo- Welcome, everybody.

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What are we here to talk about today?

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Mary- Oh my gosh, so many wonderful things

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came up in that conversation.

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We're here to talk about the
writing composition courses.

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Is that the right way to refer to these?

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Micahel- So I think technically,

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they're first-year composition

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if we're gonna look at the catalog,

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but the collection of courses
is called The Writer's Studio.

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Mary - Oh.

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Michael- Yeah, and they call it that,

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The Writer's Studio,

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because it is a process-oriented model,

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which we'll hear a lot about.

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But they really wanted to set it up

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more like an artist studio,

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where the work is never done

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and you're there working with a mentor

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rather than an expert.

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And so that's really kind of the reason

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why they chose that title,
The Writer's Studio.

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Mary- Oh, intentionality, I like it.

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Ricardo - So who are the individuals
that we spoke to?

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Michael- Yeah, so we had Dr. Michelle Stuckey,

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and she's the program coordinator.

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So she is the head honcho

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of everything within the Writer's Studio.

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Mary - And lovely as a human being,

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and, like, accessibility-minded,

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and I just love her.

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Michael - Yeah, she has been a
mentor for me since 2016.

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She's the one who brought me
to EdPlus when I graduated.

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She said, "Hey.

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There's this position
called a Success Coach.

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I think you'd be really good at it."

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At the time, I was a store
manager for Starbucks

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and was pretty happy there.

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Looked at it, and I was like, "Spot on."

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So she's the one who brought me to EdPlus.

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She wrote my recommendation
letters for my graduate degrees.

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Just, I mean, awesome mentor.

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Awesome friend.

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Ricardo - Wait, before we go any further,

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Michael, who are you?

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Michael - Oh yeah, hi, I'm Michael.

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So I am a Instructional Designer

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and Academic Success
and Retention Specialist

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on the Learning
Initiatives team at EdPlus.

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So I do a lot of weird, random things.

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We kind of mishmashed some jobs
together to create my role,

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but I get to support Liz,

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who is the primary Instructional
Designer for these courses,

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and do a little bit of that
instructional design work.

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But then what the Learning
Initiatives team really does is,

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a lot of times when you
think about course design,

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you think about curriculum

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and you think about the user experience

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of the online course itself.

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But there's so many other things

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that impact the students' experience,

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and so what my team tries to do

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is partner with all the
different units and departments

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and individuals across the university,

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and especially at EdPlus,

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to really create a system of
support for these students

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that honestly the students
may not even know about,

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or may not even be aware of,

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of how we're trying to support
them within these courses.

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Ricardo - And I know you, Michael,

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you were on my hack day team,

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and you wrote this really
great script for a video

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about schooling in the future

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and there was aliens and all
sorts of other fun things,

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so I'm not surprised

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that you have such a
strong writing background.

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Mary - I was actually gonna say that.

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When I heard them talking about,

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like, the course itself
and the value that you had,

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which you guys will hear it in a second,

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I was like, "Yeah, story checks out.

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Michael's one of the best
communicators I've ever met."

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Michael - Thank you, thank you.

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Liz - Yeah, I was gonna say,

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it's a really incredible opportunity

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to be an instructional designer,

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getting to work with the LIT Team,

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which has the greatest name.

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It's the only reason why I'm like so mad

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about them being a team

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'cause they've got just
like the coolest team name.

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I wanna be Team LIT,

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but neither here nor there.
Michael - Wanna know what's weird?

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We used to be the Learning Experience

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and Student Success team,

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which is LESS.

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I'm like, "Oh, that's
not a great acronym,"

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so yeah, LIT is definitely a step up.

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Michael - Full spectrum of the acronym there.

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Ricardo - But from LESS to LIT.

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Liz - Yeah, it's just team LIT, I love it.

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But it's so great getting to work

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with Michael from the LIT team

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because it helps kind of take
focus off of data for me.

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Like I have kind of like a data specialist

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and somebody who is
really helping coordinate

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managing a lot of the student resources

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that we end up needing

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and helping us get connected
with the Success Coaches

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and getting to hear those
firsthand student experiences.

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Something that, you know, as
an instructional designer,

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we don't really have a
lot of access to students

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and student information
and data in that way.

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So it's really great to have
a team like that to work with.

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And then Michael's just also
a really fantastic designer

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and he's just so much fun to work with.

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So it's a partnership made in heaven.

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Michael - Feeling is mutual.

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Ricardo - And you'll hear he's a
great interviewer as well.

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So who else do we have on the show?

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Michael - Yeah, so we also had Dr. Zachary

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or Zach Waggoner.

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He is the Coordinator for English 101.

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So he kind of manages everything,

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manages all the faculty

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and everybody that's up
within the English 101

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First-Year Composition course.

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We are joined by John Buckley.

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He's a instructor and faculty
member for English 101,

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but he is also the Coordinator
for the Writing Mentors,

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which I'm sure we will
be talking about here

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in a little bit.

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And then last but not least,

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we had Sean Tingle will join us

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and he is a faculty
member for English 105,

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which is the advanced
First-Year Composition course

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Ricardo - All the way out in Philadelphia.

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Michael- Yeah.
Ricardo- Okay.

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So without further ado, let's do it.

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(bright music)

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Michael- Hi, I am Michael Miller and
I am a Instructional Designer

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and academic success and
retention specialists at EdPlus.

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I work on the Learning Initiatives team,

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which supports our 35 highest enrolling

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online courses at ASU.

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And I'm joined today by
some of my old friends.

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Let's start with Dr. Michelle Stuckey.

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Michelle- Thanks, Michael.

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I'm Michelle Stuckey

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and I am a Clinical Associate Professor

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and Writing Program Administrator

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for ASU'S Online First-Year
Composition program,

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the Writer's Studio,

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which is housed in the School
of Applied Sciences and Arts

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in the College of
Integrative Sciences and Arts

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here at ASU.

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Michael- Awesome, thanks for
joining us, Michelle.

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Michelle- My pleasure.

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Michael- And we also have Dr. Zach Waggoner.

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Zach Waggoner- Hi, Michael.

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I'm the English 101 course Coordinator

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for the Writer's Studio,

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and I've been working in
administration of writing programs

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for a couple of decades now.

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Michael- Thanks for being here, Zach.

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Zach- Sure thing.

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Michael- Next up we have John Buckley.

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John Buckley- Hi, Michael, yeah,

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my name's John Buckley.

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I teach English 101 courses
in the Writer's studio,

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and I also coordinate our
Writing Mentor program.

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Our writing mentors are
course-embedded peer tutors

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who provide support to
our students and faculty.

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I started out as a faculty
associate in the Writer's Studio

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and worked my way up to,

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you know, teaching and administrating.

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Michael- Awesome, thanks for being here, John.

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And last but certainly not least,

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we are joined from afar by Sean Tingle,

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who is not only a good coworker here,

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but a good friend of mine as well.

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So, Sean, welcome.

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Sean Tingle- Hey, I'm Sean.

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Thanks for having me even from far away.

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I've been an instructor
with the Writer's Studio

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for I think eight years now.

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I'm not quite sure on
the numbers at this time,

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but around there.

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And I've also taught in English
101 and 102 in the past,

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but I teach 105 now.

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Michael- Yeah, and we're happy to have you.

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So I am thrilled to have this conversation

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with everyone today.

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So I often tell people that I grew up

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in the Writer's Studio.

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So I have a non-traditional
path towards a degree program.

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I came to ASU through the partnership

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with Starbucks in 2016.

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And the very first online course

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that I ever took was English 105

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advanced first-year composition
with Dr. Michelle Stuckey.

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And what was so great
about that experience,

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I mean, it's an awesome course,

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very high level,

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was not what I was expecting at all,

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but a phenomenal experience.

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And at the end of that course,

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Dr. Stuckey reached out to me

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and invited me to apply for
a writing mentor position.

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We'll hear a lot more
about the writing mentors

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a little bit later,

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but it's basically a peer embedded tutor

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working within these
first-year composition courses.

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So after that experience,

261
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it really reignited my
passion for education.

262
00:08:22,410 --> 00:08:25,440
And I had spent over a decade
in different retail management

263
00:08:25,440 --> 00:08:27,450
and just was finding myself unfulfilled,

264
00:08:27,450 --> 00:08:28,500
but without a degree,

265
00:08:28,500 --> 00:08:30,510
not really able to go
anywhere else, right?

266
00:08:30,510 --> 00:08:31,685
So with that position,

267
00:08:31,685 --> 00:08:33,660
I was able to work with
the Writer's Studio,

268
00:08:33,660 --> 00:08:35,850
work very closely with
really everybody here.

269
00:08:35,850 --> 00:08:39,150
So I was a writing mentor
for John Buckley at first,

270
00:08:39,150 --> 00:08:40,650
then for Sean for a few years.

271
00:08:40,650 --> 00:08:42,620
I worked under Zach Waggoner
when I was in English 101.

272
00:08:42,620 --> 00:08:44,820
And then of course with
Dr. Michelle Stuckey,

273
00:08:44,820 --> 00:08:46,860
we've had a couple of
even independent studies

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00:08:46,860 --> 00:08:48,030
down the road and things like that.

275
00:08:48,030 --> 00:08:50,457
So really, really grateful
for everyone to be here

276
00:08:50,457 --> 00:08:52,380
and to talk about your courses today.

277
00:08:52,380 --> 00:08:55,050
So what I thought we would do
is maybe start with Michelle,

278
00:08:55,050 --> 00:08:56,490
if you would like to kind of kick us off

279
00:08:56,490 --> 00:08:57,540
and talk a little bit,

280
00:08:57,540 --> 00:08:59,070
just high level, what is the program,

281
00:08:59,070 --> 00:09:00,900
what's different about it,
what's special about it,

282
00:09:00,900 --> 00:09:03,270
and what's all this high impact verbiage

283
00:09:03,270 --> 00:09:04,350
that we keep talking about?

284
00:09:04,350 --> 00:09:05,940
Michelle- Sure, Michael, well, that's a lot.

285
00:09:05,940 --> 00:09:09,360
So let me just give you
kind of a brief overview

286
00:09:09,360 --> 00:09:11,340
of what we do in the Writer's Studio.

287
00:09:11,340 --> 00:09:12,570
So in the Writer's Studio,

288
00:09:12,570 --> 00:09:15,030
we provide the first-year
writing requirement

289
00:09:15,030 --> 00:09:16,860
to all students who are enrolled

290
00:09:16,860 --> 00:09:19,980
specifically in online degree programs.

291
00:09:19,980 --> 00:09:23,040
And so, you know, when
Michael started way back when,

292
00:09:23,040 --> 00:09:25,530
and we might've had about
5,000 students a year,

293
00:09:25,530 --> 00:09:28,290
and now we're pushing 17,000 students.

294
00:09:28,290 --> 00:09:33,120
And so as ASU online program has grown,

295
00:09:33,120 --> 00:09:35,280
so has enrollment in our program,

296
00:09:35,280 --> 00:09:36,900
which has really pushed us.

297
00:09:36,900 --> 00:09:38,190
I mean, we're at ASU, right?

298
00:09:38,190 --> 00:09:40,080
So it's pushed us to innovate

299
00:09:40,080 --> 00:09:41,725
new ways of meeting students' need,

300
00:09:41,725 --> 00:09:46,725
meeting the demands of large
enrollment online programming

301
00:09:46,950 --> 00:09:51,260
and maintaining quality,
engaging, challenging experiences

302
00:09:51,260 --> 00:09:53,520
for students in writing courses.

303
00:09:53,520 --> 00:09:56,460
So I think what sets our program apart,

304
00:09:56,460 --> 00:09:57,870
Michael, as you asked,

305
00:09:57,870 --> 00:09:58,950
is a few things.

306
00:09:58,950 --> 00:10:02,340
One, you know, like many writing classes,

307
00:10:02,340 --> 00:10:05,430
we wanna give students an opportunity

308
00:10:05,430 --> 00:10:08,520
to develop their own
transferable writing process.

309
00:10:08,520 --> 00:10:09,960
So when they leave our classes,

310
00:10:09,960 --> 00:10:11,190
they're confident

311
00:10:11,190 --> 00:10:13,440
about the next writing
assignment they tackle

312
00:10:13,440 --> 00:10:14,940
and the next class they take.

313
00:10:14,940 --> 00:10:18,390
But also that we wanna give
them skills and practices

314
00:10:18,390 --> 00:10:20,100
and habits that they can take with them

315
00:10:20,100 --> 00:10:22,350
to writing they do in
other areas of their lives.

316
00:10:22,350 --> 00:10:24,600
That's been one of our core goals,

317
00:10:24,600 --> 00:10:27,060
to help students really
develop the skills they need

318
00:10:27,060 --> 00:10:29,880
to be successful communicators
at ASU and beyond.

319
00:10:29,880 --> 00:10:30,713
And I think,

320
00:10:30,713 --> 00:10:32,790
a couple other things I think is unique

321
00:10:32,790 --> 00:10:34,859
and sometimes surprising for
students who take our classes,

322
00:10:34,859 --> 00:10:37,920
one is that we really want them

323
00:10:37,920 --> 00:10:40,860
to move away from thinking
about like the five paragraph

324
00:10:40,860 --> 00:10:42,600
generic academic essay,

325
00:10:42,600 --> 00:10:45,150
and to really engage
with writing assignments

326
00:10:45,150 --> 00:10:46,680
where they are making knowledge

327
00:10:46,680 --> 00:10:49,470
about topics that are interesting to them.

328
00:10:49,470 --> 00:10:52,110
So they're the ones kind
of steering their learning

329
00:10:52,110 --> 00:10:53,160
in a lot of ways

330
00:10:53,160 --> 00:10:54,750
by doing independent research

331
00:10:54,750 --> 00:10:57,540
on things that are important
to them and their communities.

332
00:10:57,540 --> 00:10:59,550
So our curriculum is really focused

333
00:10:59,550 --> 00:11:03,000
on community-engaged writing and research.

334
00:11:03,000 --> 00:11:05,130
And then three, we wanna prepare students

335
00:11:05,130 --> 00:11:07,860
to be 21st century digital communicators.

336
00:11:07,860 --> 00:11:10,170
Now, back in 2015,

337
00:11:10,170 --> 00:11:12,090
this sounded a little more radical

338
00:11:12,090 --> 00:11:13,800
than it does almost 10 years later,

339
00:11:13,800 --> 00:11:16,080
because now we're almost
a quarter of the way

340
00:11:16,080 --> 00:11:17,940
into the 21st century.

341
00:11:17,940 --> 00:11:21,090
But what I mean by that
is to really be engaged

342
00:11:21,090 --> 00:11:23,880
with digital writing experiences.

343
00:11:23,880 --> 00:11:27,450
And so over the course of our program,

344
00:11:27,450 --> 00:11:31,680
our students get exposed to
all sorts of digital composing.

345
00:11:31,680 --> 00:11:33,720
So they create digital portfolios

346
00:11:33,720 --> 00:11:35,700
using things like Google sites.

347
00:11:35,700 --> 00:11:37,812
They compose infographics,

348
00:11:37,812 --> 00:11:40,560
which is a real genre that
they might engage with

349
00:11:40,560 --> 00:11:41,640
in the workforce.

350
00:11:41,640 --> 00:11:44,940
They compose PSAs and advocacy ads.

351
00:11:44,940 --> 00:11:47,820
They're working with bringing
text and image together,

352
00:11:47,820 --> 00:11:48,653
which I think, you know,

353
00:11:48,653 --> 00:11:51,720
that they're already doing in
so many ways in their lives,

354
00:11:51,720 --> 00:11:53,250
but they're really seeing how to do it

355
00:11:53,250 --> 00:11:55,140
in a deliberate and thoughtful way.

356
00:11:55,140 --> 00:11:59,010
So those are a few of the things
I think that set us apart.

357
00:11:59,010 --> 00:11:59,843
Michael- Yeah, that's a great overview.

358
00:11:59,843 --> 00:12:00,676
Thanks, Michelle.

359
00:12:00,676 --> 00:12:02,280
And I think for me, you know,

360
00:12:02,280 --> 00:12:05,460
English 105 was one of
the most impactful courses

361
00:12:05,460 --> 00:12:06,900
that I have ever taken.

362
00:12:06,900 --> 00:12:08,010
And it's one of those courses

363
00:12:08,010 --> 00:12:09,150
where the skills that I learned

364
00:12:09,150 --> 00:12:11,010
are skills that I use every single day,

365
00:12:11,010 --> 00:12:13,080
whether it's writing a business email,

366
00:12:13,080 --> 00:12:14,730
writing a text to a friend or,

367
00:12:14,730 --> 00:12:15,900
I mean, I'm creating infographics,

368
00:12:15,900 --> 00:12:16,860
graphics all the time.

369
00:12:16,860 --> 00:12:19,110
So those skills I think are so great

370
00:12:19,110 --> 00:12:21,090
to not only prepare
students for, you know,

371
00:12:21,090 --> 00:12:22,920
two, four years of academic work

372
00:12:22,920 --> 00:12:23,850
that they're gonna be doing.

373
00:12:23,850 --> 00:12:27,000
These are real-world skills
that are directly applicable

374
00:12:27,000 --> 00:12:28,980
into so many different
professional settings.

375
00:12:28,980 --> 00:12:30,660
So I think it's a great course.

376
00:12:30,660 --> 00:12:32,100
We were excited to partner with you

377
00:12:32,100 --> 00:12:33,720
for a three-year redesign.

378
00:12:33,720 --> 00:12:34,980
Michelle, can you talk a little bit

379
00:12:34,980 --> 00:12:36,330
about some of your priorities

380
00:12:36,330 --> 00:12:38,280
going into this redesign process?

381
00:12:38,280 --> 00:12:39,113
Michelle- Sure, Michael.

382
00:12:39,113 --> 00:12:42,240
What is challenging for us

383
00:12:42,240 --> 00:12:44,910
as the folks who are designing curriculum,

384
00:12:44,910 --> 00:12:47,700
is to think about how to create classes

385
00:12:47,700 --> 00:12:50,760
that can meet a really
broad range of learners.

386
00:12:50,760 --> 00:12:53,460
To meet the needs of a really
broad range of learners.

387
00:12:53,460 --> 00:12:56,340
So we might have first time
first-year students in a class

388
00:12:56,340 --> 00:13:00,360
with somebody who has been
working professionally,

389
00:13:00,360 --> 00:13:03,600
in doing writing
professionally for 20 years,

390
00:13:03,600 --> 00:13:05,880
and who has just never
finished their degree.

391
00:13:05,880 --> 00:13:09,330
And those students are gonna
have a really broad range

392
00:13:09,330 --> 00:13:11,610
of real world experience,

393
00:13:11,610 --> 00:13:13,410
comfort in educational setting,

394
00:13:13,410 --> 00:13:15,747
comfort levels in
educational settings, right?

395
00:13:15,747 --> 00:13:17,550
And so how do we design curriculum

396
00:13:17,550 --> 00:13:21,090
that is gonna be engaging and
meaningful and challenging,

397
00:13:21,090 --> 00:13:23,910
but still offers a pathway to success

398
00:13:23,910 --> 00:13:25,260
for all the possible learners

399
00:13:25,260 --> 00:13:27,597
who might be coming into our program.

400
00:13:27,597 --> 00:13:29,580
And so what really got us thinking

401
00:13:29,580 --> 00:13:33,180
was we have a constantly
changing demographic of students.

402
00:13:33,180 --> 00:13:34,830
Let's take a deep dive

403
00:13:34,830 --> 00:13:38,430
into who's successful in
our program, who isn't,

404
00:13:38,430 --> 00:13:41,520
and let's think about what
changes we need to make

405
00:13:41,520 --> 00:13:45,060
to include, right, all
the possible students

406
00:13:45,060 --> 00:13:48,960
and provide a pathway to
success in our program.

407
00:13:48,960 --> 00:13:50,160
John- Michelle, would this be a good time

408
00:13:50,160 --> 00:13:51,780
to maybe bring up the learning contract?

409
00:13:51,780 --> 00:13:53,130
Michelle- Yeah, that's a great segue.

410
00:13:53,130 --> 00:13:54,810
You know, John, I don't know
if you wanted to talk about it,

411
00:13:54,810 --> 00:13:58,260
but right before we started
this three-year redesign,

412
00:13:58,260 --> 00:14:00,990
we had gone through a year-long process

413
00:14:00,990 --> 00:14:03,030
of developing and implementing

414
00:14:03,030 --> 00:14:04,380
what we call a learning contract.

415
00:14:04,380 --> 00:14:07,260
It's a mode of assessment
based on contract grading.

416
00:14:07,260 --> 00:14:08,970
And that was our first step

417
00:14:08,970 --> 00:14:12,270
toward really thinking
about how to expand equity

418
00:14:12,270 --> 00:14:15,750
and inclusion in our classes
related to assessments.

419
00:14:15,750 --> 00:14:18,030
And so what we did was really develop

420
00:14:18,030 --> 00:14:20,640
a more holistic grading structure

421
00:14:20,640 --> 00:14:23,640
in which students were
basically being assessed

422
00:14:23,640 --> 00:14:25,380
on their own individual growth.

423
00:14:25,380 --> 00:14:27,930
And so we believe that
the more students write,

424
00:14:27,930 --> 00:14:29,190
the better they get at writing.

425
00:14:29,190 --> 00:14:31,170
And we really wanted to find a way

426
00:14:31,170 --> 00:14:32,730
to just encourage students

427
00:14:32,730 --> 00:14:35,310
to just write without being afraid

428
00:14:35,310 --> 00:14:38,100
or overly focused on points

429
00:14:38,100 --> 00:14:40,800
and how many points they're
gonna get or lose potentially.

430
00:14:40,800 --> 00:14:44,310
And so just giving them a
path to just get started

431
00:14:44,310 --> 00:14:45,840
and to reduce some of that anxiety

432
00:14:45,840 --> 00:14:49,620
that prevents a lot of
students from just writing.

433
00:14:49,620 --> 00:14:51,870
And so that was one of
our first steps we made

434
00:14:51,870 --> 00:14:53,039
to kind of think about equity

435
00:14:53,039 --> 00:14:55,110
and expand equity in our classes.

436
00:14:55,110 --> 00:14:55,950
Zach- And this is Zach,

437
00:14:55,950 --> 00:14:58,080
just to jump in on what Michelle said,

438
00:14:58,080 --> 00:14:59,670
historically students do have,

439
00:14:59,670 --> 00:15:01,230
and not just students
but people in general

440
00:15:01,230 --> 00:15:03,300
have a lot of anxiety related to writing.

441
00:15:03,300 --> 00:15:04,470
There's a lot of stress.

442
00:15:04,470 --> 00:15:05,303
There's a lot of doubt.

443
00:15:05,303 --> 00:15:06,810
There's a lot of insecurity.

444
00:15:06,810 --> 00:15:09,000
And that's because writing
historically for folks

445
00:15:09,000 --> 00:15:11,070
has been very product-based

446
00:15:11,070 --> 00:15:13,110
that they're asked to produce something

447
00:15:13,110 --> 00:15:14,580
and then they're never
helped with the process

448
00:15:14,580 --> 00:15:16,050
of getting to that product.

449
00:15:16,050 --> 00:15:18,690
And so of course, if that's academically,

450
00:15:18,690 --> 00:15:21,150
you can see how that has
played out over many decades.

451
00:15:21,150 --> 00:15:23,310
But so what we've tried to
do with our learning contract

452
00:15:23,310 --> 00:15:25,110
is take the emphasis off of the product

453
00:15:25,110 --> 00:15:27,090
and put the emphasis on the process

454
00:15:27,090 --> 00:15:28,920
so that many small writing assignments

455
00:15:28,920 --> 00:15:31,800
that contribute towards
working towards some product,

456
00:15:31,800 --> 00:15:32,880
I suppose, down the line.

457
00:15:32,880 --> 00:15:33,870
But that's not our emphasis.

458
00:15:33,870 --> 00:15:36,120
We care about the stages along the way,

459
00:15:36,120 --> 00:15:37,200
the steps, the habits,

460
00:15:37,200 --> 00:15:38,490
and the skills that you learn.

461
00:15:38,490 --> 00:15:40,050
And so the learning contract allows us

462
00:15:40,050 --> 00:15:41,880
to do that focus on process

463
00:15:41,880 --> 00:15:44,190
in a way that's much less
stressful for students.

464
00:15:44,190 --> 00:15:45,277
Michael- Yeah, I love that, and I think,

465
00:15:45,277 --> 00:15:47,550
you know, as a perfectionist myself,

466
00:15:47,550 --> 00:15:49,020
that learning contract just, again,

467
00:15:49,020 --> 00:15:51,360
takes some of that weight
off of a student's shoulders.

468
00:15:51,360 --> 00:15:52,650
And you know, Zach,

469
00:15:52,650 --> 00:15:54,660
you were talking about kinda
that process-oriented model.

470
00:15:54,660 --> 00:15:55,890
That's a great way, I think,

471
00:15:55,890 --> 00:15:57,330
to really frame the Writer's Studio,

472
00:15:57,330 --> 00:15:59,880
is that it really is all
about process, not product.

473
00:15:59,880 --> 00:16:00,780
And I remember, Zach,

474
00:16:00,780 --> 00:16:02,370
something that you've often said

475
00:16:02,370 --> 00:16:04,890
that there is no such thing
as a final draft, right?

476
00:16:04,890 --> 00:16:07,080
It's always opportunity for revision.

477
00:16:07,080 --> 00:16:09,660
And so again, I think
that mentality really

478
00:16:09,660 --> 00:16:11,550
is infused so deeply into the curriculum

479
00:16:11,550 --> 00:16:12,383
of the Writer's Studio

480
00:16:12,383 --> 00:16:13,980
and those first-year composition courses.

481
00:16:13,980 --> 00:16:16,560
John- Yeah, we actually changed
the terminology of our courses.

482
00:16:16,560 --> 00:16:17,670
Specifically based on that,

483
00:16:17,670 --> 00:16:19,860
we used to have a rough
draft and a final draft

484
00:16:19,860 --> 00:16:21,480
of our writing projects.

485
00:16:21,480 --> 00:16:24,330
And we've changed those
terms to feedback draft

486
00:16:24,330 --> 00:16:25,960
and revised draft knowing that, you know,

487
00:16:25,960 --> 00:16:27,960
yeah, you've done your revision,

488
00:16:27,960 --> 00:16:29,130
nothing is ever final.

489
00:16:29,130 --> 00:16:31,590
So we wanna take that
pressure off students as well.

490
00:16:31,590 --> 00:16:33,660
Zach- And the language we use
to communicate with students

491
00:16:33,660 --> 00:16:34,710
is super important.

492
00:16:34,710 --> 00:16:36,720
Michael- So Zach, why don't you talk a little bit

493
00:16:36,720 --> 00:16:38,280
about English 101

494
00:16:38,280 --> 00:16:41,010
and some of the changes that
you wanted to prioritize

495
00:16:41,010 --> 00:16:41,880
and what you've seen

496
00:16:41,880 --> 00:16:44,220
and maybe how that's impacted
students in your courses?

497
00:16:44,220 --> 00:16:45,570
Zach- Well, so as Michelle said,

498
00:16:45,570 --> 00:16:47,539
we have seen an enormous kind of change.

499
00:16:47,539 --> 00:16:50,730
It always influx change
in our student population.

500
00:16:50,730 --> 00:16:52,470
And I expect that will continue.

501
00:16:52,470 --> 00:16:54,810
So our redesign is really kind of designed

502
00:16:54,810 --> 00:16:56,280
to be as flexible as possible

503
00:16:56,280 --> 00:16:59,490
to meet a wide range of different
students where they're at,

504
00:16:59,490 --> 00:17:02,010
while always also being very
proactive and intentional

505
00:17:02,010 --> 00:17:04,380
in thinking about high
impact on our students.

506
00:17:04,380 --> 00:17:05,610
We wanna retain our students.

507
00:17:05,610 --> 00:17:07,260
We wanna engage our students.

508
00:17:07,260 --> 00:17:09,240
We want our students to persist at ASU

509
00:17:09,240 --> 00:17:10,830
all the way through to graduation.

510
00:17:10,830 --> 00:17:13,200
And so trying to redesign
the 101 curriculum,

511
00:17:13,200 --> 00:17:16,350
to do that has been challenging
but also very rewarding.

512
00:17:16,350 --> 00:17:18,000
We've always been process-focused,

513
00:17:18,000 --> 00:17:18,870
but we've kind of, I think,

514
00:17:18,870 --> 00:17:20,340
and since this rebuild,

515
00:17:20,340 --> 00:17:22,590
focused even more on how to be flexible

516
00:17:22,590 --> 00:17:24,030
with the assignment design.

517
00:17:24,030 --> 00:17:26,850
We do have one large project
that students are working on,

518
00:17:26,850 --> 00:17:28,500
or two, depending on the session,

519
00:17:28,500 --> 00:17:30,330
and depending on the student population.

520
00:17:30,330 --> 00:17:32,520
And so inside of those large projects,

521
00:17:32,520 --> 00:17:34,350
we have many small invention assignments

522
00:17:34,350 --> 00:17:36,000
to help them complete the steps

523
00:17:36,000 --> 00:17:38,220
of the thinking and writing
that's gonna be necessary.

524
00:17:38,220 --> 00:17:39,570
So we've really redesigned those

525
00:17:39,570 --> 00:17:41,940
to be community-embedded,
as Michelle said,

526
00:17:41,940 --> 00:17:43,860
to focus on the students' individual,

527
00:17:43,860 --> 00:17:45,390
communities that they value.

528
00:17:45,390 --> 00:17:48,720
And that could be a wide range
of community-related topics.

529
00:17:48,720 --> 00:17:49,864
And write students with agency

530
00:17:49,864 --> 00:17:52,350
to select from within their communities

531
00:17:52,350 --> 00:17:54,397
the topic that best
fits their own interests

532
00:17:54,397 --> 00:17:56,970
in relationship to whatever the prompt

533
00:17:56,970 --> 00:17:59,100
or the topic that we've
selected for that semester is.

534
00:17:59,100 --> 00:18:00,750
And so that's one of the main ways

535
00:18:00,750 --> 00:18:02,850
we've been proactively revamping.

536
00:18:02,850 --> 00:18:06,240
We've also decided on a very
heavy-focus in English 101

537
00:18:06,240 --> 00:18:09,270
on primary research as
opposed to secondary research.

538
00:18:09,270 --> 00:18:11,100
Many, many students are very familiar

539
00:18:11,100 --> 00:18:12,690
with secondary research of some type

540
00:18:12,690 --> 00:18:15,900
having had other educational
experiences before English 101.

541
00:18:15,900 --> 00:18:18,960
But very few students are
familiar with primary research.

542
00:18:18,960 --> 00:18:21,420
But primary research is
really where you can learn

543
00:18:21,420 --> 00:18:22,253
as a creator,

544
00:18:22,253 --> 00:18:23,760
as a composer, as a writer,

545
00:18:23,760 --> 00:18:25,710
to gain agency in the topic.

546
00:18:25,710 --> 00:18:27,210
You have to go out, for example,

547
00:18:27,210 --> 00:18:29,040
and conduct interviews perhaps,

548
00:18:29,040 --> 00:18:31,890
or you have to go out and
conduct field research

549
00:18:31,890 --> 00:18:34,830
if you're doing observation out
in the real world somewhere.

550
00:18:34,830 --> 00:18:37,620
So a focus on primary research

551
00:18:37,620 --> 00:18:40,110
with the topic that the
student can kind of pick

552
00:18:40,110 --> 00:18:42,330
to their own interests
in their own community

553
00:18:42,330 --> 00:18:43,830
has really helped us see a rise

554
00:18:43,830 --> 00:18:46,050
in student engagement and retention.

555
00:18:46,050 --> 00:18:47,490
John- Yeah, this is really something different

556
00:18:47,490 --> 00:18:48,960
from online classes too.

557
00:18:48,960 --> 00:18:50,910
And Michael, even before you mentioned

558
00:18:50,910 --> 00:18:53,940
that your English 105 class
was not what you expected,

559
00:18:53,940 --> 00:18:55,830
and that's what we hear
from all of our students,

560
00:18:55,830 --> 00:18:57,330
is that our classes is
not what they expect.

561
00:18:57,330 --> 00:18:58,770
You know, it's an online class.

562
00:18:58,770 --> 00:19:00,570
Sure, I'm gonna be in
front of my computer,

563
00:19:00,570 --> 00:19:01,726
peck away at my keyboard,

564
00:19:01,726 --> 00:19:03,480
but that's not really what we want,

565
00:19:03,480 --> 00:19:05,100
and that's not what ASU wants.

566
00:19:05,100 --> 00:19:07,050
We want our students to be,

567
00:19:07,050 --> 00:19:08,700
you know, embedded and
engaged with their community.

568
00:19:08,700 --> 00:19:11,527
So the assignments that we
have in both of our classes,

569
00:19:11,527 --> 00:19:13,140
101, 102, even 105,

570
00:19:13,140 --> 00:19:14,236
they get out of their chairs

571
00:19:14,236 --> 00:19:15,900
out in front of their computer screen

572
00:19:15,900 --> 00:19:17,250
and out into the real world

573
00:19:17,250 --> 00:19:19,710
and you know, really engaging
with their community.

574
00:19:19,710 --> 00:19:21,960
Michael- Yeah, and I think that's one
of the really special things.

575
00:19:21,960 --> 00:19:23,460
And one of the things,
like you just said, John,

576
00:19:23,460 --> 00:19:24,360
that was surprising to me

577
00:19:24,360 --> 00:19:27,607
is you see English 101 as
a student and you think,

578
00:19:27,607 --> 00:19:29,100
"Oh, I'm gonna read some poetry,

579
00:19:29,100 --> 00:19:31,020
and I'm gonna read "Mary
Shelley's Frankenstein,"

580
00:19:31,020 --> 00:19:32,820
and then I'm gonna write
a critical essay, right?"

581
00:19:32,820 --> 00:19:35,460
And then we walk into these
courses in the digital sense

582
00:19:35,460 --> 00:19:37,470
and they say, "No, what
are you interested in?

583
00:19:37,470 --> 00:19:39,240
What are your community problems?

584
00:19:39,240 --> 00:19:40,740
How can you work to solve them, right?"

585
00:19:40,740 --> 00:19:44,550
And it's so cool to be
able to have that autonomy

586
00:19:44,550 --> 00:19:45,957
and to take responsibility
for that writing, right?

587
00:19:45,957 --> 00:19:47,760
And I think, as a student,

588
00:19:47,760 --> 00:19:49,350
it increased my engagement, right?

589
00:19:49,350 --> 00:19:51,510
And I learned things
about my local community

590
00:19:51,510 --> 00:19:53,430
that I would never have thought of, right?

591
00:19:53,430 --> 00:19:55,740
So I think that's a great approach.

592
00:19:55,740 --> 00:19:58,350
And Zach, with 101 in the
first year of the redesign,

593
00:19:58,350 --> 00:20:00,690
you had an additional
challenge with the elimination

594
00:20:00,690 --> 00:20:04,020
of writing across the
curriculum 101 that course.

595
00:20:04,020 --> 00:20:07,290
I think your enrollment
doubled or tripled in one year.

596
00:20:07,290 --> 00:20:08,670
Do you wanna talk a little bit about that?

597
00:20:08,670 --> 00:20:10,170
Zach- Right, so writing across the curriculum,

598
00:20:10,170 --> 00:20:12,180
which we know as is WAC 101,

599
00:20:12,180 --> 00:20:15,420
was a course that certain
students could test into

600
00:20:15,420 --> 00:20:18,750
or opt into that they would
take prior to English 101.

601
00:20:18,750 --> 00:20:20,537
And there's a long history of that at ASU

602
00:20:20,537 --> 00:20:22,320
and at other institutions for students

603
00:20:22,320 --> 00:20:24,780
who maybe haven't had enough practice,

604
00:20:24,780 --> 00:20:25,680
aren't as comfortable

605
00:20:25,680 --> 00:20:27,060
with where they wanna
be with their writing

606
00:20:27,060 --> 00:20:28,560
before starting English 101.

607
00:20:28,560 --> 00:20:30,450
So the elimination of that course

608
00:20:30,450 --> 00:20:31,710
now places all the students

609
00:20:31,710 --> 00:20:34,860
who before had either
tested into a situation

610
00:20:34,860 --> 00:20:37,620
or preselected by
themselves into a situation

611
00:20:37,620 --> 00:20:39,150
where they didn't feel ready

612
00:20:39,150 --> 00:20:40,800
or comfortable with English 101,

613
00:20:40,800 --> 00:20:41,940
but yet now all of those students

614
00:20:41,940 --> 00:20:43,950
are gonna be in one
English 101 going forward.

615
00:20:43,950 --> 00:20:47,340
So that just broadened the
population for English 101,

616
00:20:47,340 --> 00:20:49,320
even more than we had
already anticipated it doing.

617
00:20:49,320 --> 00:20:51,600
So the redesign has tried
to account for the needs

618
00:20:51,600 --> 00:20:52,433
of that particular audience as well.

619
00:20:52,433 --> 00:20:55,500
Michael- And I think what is a huge success

620
00:20:55,500 --> 00:20:58,680
is that even with that massive
increase in enrollment,

621
00:20:58,680 --> 00:21:00,960
we still saw an increase in ABC rates

622
00:21:00,960 --> 00:21:02,370
and a decrease in withdrawal rates.

623
00:21:02,370 --> 00:21:03,450
And that is massive

624
00:21:03,450 --> 00:21:05,580
when we're including
that other population.

625
00:21:05,580 --> 00:21:06,870
Before we move on from curriculum,

626
00:21:06,870 --> 00:21:08,130
I'd wanna ask Sean,

627
00:21:08,130 --> 00:21:10,020
can you tell us a little
bit about English 105

628
00:21:10,020 --> 00:21:11,490
and what's different about 105

629
00:21:11,490 --> 00:21:13,170
compared to 101 and 102?

630
00:21:13,170 --> 00:21:16,950
Sean- So we take the same kind
of concepts from 101 and 102

631
00:21:16,950 --> 00:21:18,809
and put it all into one quick course.

632
00:21:18,809 --> 00:21:20,490
So it's a little bit of a challenge.

633
00:21:20,490 --> 00:21:21,840
And we tend to get students

634
00:21:21,840 --> 00:21:25,080
who are maybe in Barrett Honors College

635
00:21:25,080 --> 00:21:26,940
or who have high test scores

636
00:21:26,940 --> 00:21:28,770
for their entrance exams and so forth.

637
00:21:28,770 --> 00:21:31,170
But it's really interesting
to kind of see students

638
00:21:31,170 --> 00:21:34,410
who want to get their
first-year writing courses

639
00:21:34,410 --> 00:21:35,700
outta the way really quickly.

640
00:21:35,700 --> 00:21:37,440
So sometimes, we have
challenges there too,

641
00:21:37,440 --> 00:21:38,273
you know, students who
think they're gonna get it,

642
00:21:38,273 --> 00:21:40,560
you know, get it through really quickly,

643
00:21:40,560 --> 00:21:41,820
and they just want to get it done with.

644
00:21:41,820 --> 00:21:43,860
So bringing them into that challenge

645
00:21:43,860 --> 00:21:46,560
of engaging with their communities

646
00:21:46,560 --> 00:21:48,870
and really thinking hard about,

647
00:21:48,870 --> 00:21:51,397
you know, those critical concepts versus,

648
00:21:51,397 --> 00:21:52,680
"Oh, I thought I was just gonna sit down

649
00:21:52,680 --> 00:21:54,000
and read a book and write about it."

650
00:21:54,000 --> 00:21:56,550
Or, "I thought I was gonna
do the same thing I'm used to

651
00:21:56,550 --> 00:21:57,990
in high school in my honors,

652
00:21:57,990 --> 00:21:58,823
you know, AP courses.

653
00:21:58,823 --> 00:22:00,810
I thought I was gonna
do more of the same."

654
00:22:00,810 --> 00:22:03,900
So that's been a pretty big
challenge that I've experienced.

655
00:22:03,900 --> 00:22:05,550
But once they get past that,

656
00:22:05,550 --> 00:22:08,400
hopefully they accept that
challenge and take it on.

657
00:22:08,400 --> 00:22:09,690
I've seen a lot of success

658
00:22:09,690 --> 00:22:12,030
with students who have
found it really rewarding

659
00:22:12,030 --> 00:22:13,980
and empowering too.

660
00:22:13,980 --> 00:22:15,840
So a lot of our students have gone on

661
00:22:15,840 --> 00:22:18,750
to reach out to their
real world communities

662
00:22:18,750 --> 00:22:21,150
and tried to make those
differences actually happen

663
00:22:21,150 --> 00:22:22,950
or engage with others to inform them.

664
00:22:22,950 --> 00:22:23,783
Michael- Yeah, that's great.

665
00:22:23,783 --> 00:22:24,660
And I was gonna say, I remember,

666
00:22:24,660 --> 00:22:26,910
you know, I love kind
of the end of sessions

667
00:22:26,910 --> 00:22:28,290
when you get to share some of the,

668
00:22:28,290 --> 00:22:29,820
you know, student
stories that you've heard

669
00:22:29,820 --> 00:22:30,960
or that you've encountered throughout.

670
00:22:30,960 --> 00:22:31,830
You know, and again,

671
00:22:31,830 --> 00:22:34,020
what they are going to go
on and do with that project,

672
00:22:34,020 --> 00:22:34,890
for some of them,

673
00:22:34,890 --> 00:22:36,837
I think is just so powerful
that we're able to do that

674
00:22:36,837 --> 00:22:39,210
in a first-year composition course.

675
00:22:39,210 --> 00:22:40,410
We would not be expected, right?

676
00:22:40,410 --> 00:22:42,060
So kudos to all of you for that.

677
00:22:42,060 --> 00:22:42,893
Sean- Definitely

678
00:22:42,893 --> 00:22:45,150
Michelle- We really take to heart ASU's charter,

679
00:22:45,150 --> 00:22:47,970
as well as ASU's design aspirations,

680
00:22:47,970 --> 00:22:49,140
especially social embeddedness.

681
00:22:49,140 --> 00:22:52,740
And so, you know, we've really
tried to design a curriculum

682
00:22:52,740 --> 00:22:56,940
that introduces a first-year
students to the ASU's goals

683
00:22:56,940 --> 00:22:59,760
and to the values that we
place here in the ASU community

684
00:22:59,760 --> 00:23:02,550
on making an impact beyond the university.

685
00:23:02,550 --> 00:23:05,040
Zach- Which isn't to say that
the changes we've made

686
00:23:05,040 --> 00:23:06,750
that we believe are in
students' best interests

687
00:23:06,750 --> 00:23:08,520
are easier for students necessarily.

688
00:23:08,520 --> 00:23:09,390
As Sean was saying,

689
00:23:09,390 --> 00:23:10,670
the expectations students have

690
00:23:10,670 --> 00:23:12,600
of what they're going to do in our courses

691
00:23:12,600 --> 00:23:13,800
is often radically different

692
00:23:13,800 --> 00:23:15,270
than what we are actually
asking them to do.

693
00:23:15,270 --> 00:23:16,500
And there can be resistance to that.

694
00:23:16,500 --> 00:23:17,630
There can be stress about that.

695
00:23:17,630 --> 00:23:20,130
There can be uncertainty about that.

696
00:23:20,130 --> 00:23:21,000
But I think, as Sean said,

697
00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:22,320
once we get over that with students

698
00:23:22,320 --> 00:23:23,730
when they realize what this course is

699
00:23:23,730 --> 00:23:25,290
and why it is what it is,

700
00:23:25,290 --> 00:23:27,930
there's the opportunity
for real deep learning.

701
00:23:27,930 --> 00:23:29,970
And I think most students
will appreciate that.

702
00:23:29,970 --> 00:23:31,890
Michael- Absolutely, and I think
one of the great things

703
00:23:31,890 --> 00:23:34,470
that y'all have done is
include several pauses

704
00:23:34,470 --> 00:23:35,970
for reflection throughout
the course, right?

705
00:23:35,970 --> 00:23:36,930
Because sometimes,

706
00:23:36,930 --> 00:23:38,760
in these seven and a
half week online courses,

707
00:23:38,760 --> 00:23:40,320
it is just nonstop.

708
00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:42,000
From day one until the very end,

709
00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:43,620
students are just go, go, go.

710
00:23:43,620 --> 00:23:44,746
And they never have time to really stop

711
00:23:44,746 --> 00:23:46,530
and reflect on their learning.

712
00:23:46,530 --> 00:23:47,610
And that's something that y'all have built

713
00:23:47,610 --> 00:23:48,810
into the curriculum that again,

714
00:23:48,810 --> 00:23:50,340
I think is just really special.

715
00:23:50,340 --> 00:23:51,900
Michelle- Thanks, Michael, and actually,

716
00:23:51,900 --> 00:23:54,690
you know, redesigning how
we approached reflection,

717
00:23:54,690 --> 00:23:56,910
Zach was in charge of that actually,

718
00:23:56,910 --> 00:23:58,828
you know, three years of working on this,

719
00:23:58,828 --> 00:24:02,640
it's almost difficult to
remember all that we did

720
00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:03,720
over the last three years.

721
00:24:03,720 --> 00:24:06,510
But our first year we really decided

722
00:24:06,510 --> 00:24:08,160
we wanted to think differently

723
00:24:08,160 --> 00:24:11,640
about how we were engaging
students in reflections.

724
00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:12,473
And for those of you

725
00:24:12,473 --> 00:24:15,060
who are maybe new to the term reflection,

726
00:24:15,060 --> 00:24:17,070
you know, educational psychology

727
00:24:17,070 --> 00:24:20,850
shows that building in these
moments for students to stop

728
00:24:20,850 --> 00:24:23,580
and take stock of their learning

729
00:24:23,580 --> 00:24:26,790
and really engage in what
we call metacognition

730
00:24:26,790 --> 00:24:29,100
does a lot for solidifying that learning

731
00:24:29,100 --> 00:24:32,970
so that students retain
more of what they learned

732
00:24:32,970 --> 00:24:34,620
when they have those moments.

733
00:24:34,620 --> 00:24:37,980
And so prior to our course redesign,

734
00:24:37,980 --> 00:24:40,200
a lot of our reflecting was really focused

735
00:24:40,200 --> 00:24:42,000
on the learning outcomes

736
00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:45,300
and asking students to kind
of demonstrate their learning

737
00:24:45,300 --> 00:24:48,000
of each of the outcomes that
we had articulated for them

738
00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:49,230
in our courses.

739
00:24:49,230 --> 00:24:50,760
And as part of this redesign,

740
00:24:50,760 --> 00:24:53,970
we started having conversations
about student agency

741
00:24:53,970 --> 00:24:55,890
because we felt as a program

742
00:24:55,890 --> 00:25:00,510
that our priority was to give
students agency as learners

743
00:25:00,510 --> 00:25:03,630
and that the reflections were
a vehicle for them to tell us

744
00:25:03,630 --> 00:25:05,880
and show us what they learned.

745
00:25:05,880 --> 00:25:08,520
But we were also constraining them

746
00:25:08,520 --> 00:25:12,420
by limiting them to only
discussing the outcomes.

747
00:25:12,420 --> 00:25:14,640
And so one of the projects Zach works on,

748
00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:16,740
I want him to be able to
speak to it if he wants,

749
00:25:16,740 --> 00:25:19,770
was to really think about
designing reflections

750
00:25:19,770 --> 00:25:21,240
that were holistic.

751
00:25:21,240 --> 00:25:25,140
And that gave students prompting
questions to reflect on

752
00:25:25,140 --> 00:25:28,050
and to really set the agenda
for their own learning.

753
00:25:28,050 --> 00:25:29,213
Zach- Yeah, Michelle said it exactly right.

754
00:25:29,213 --> 00:25:31,710
What we did was we vastly simplified

755
00:25:31,710 --> 00:25:33,840
what we were asking students
to do in our reflections

756
00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:35,010
with basically two components

757
00:25:35,010 --> 00:25:36,510
on the reflections we're having them do.

758
00:25:36,510 --> 00:25:38,760
No matter if that is a
reflection at the beginning

759
00:25:38,760 --> 00:25:39,720
or a reflection at the middle

760
00:25:39,720 --> 00:25:41,730
or a reflection at the end of the term.

761
00:25:41,730 --> 00:25:42,690
In one of those two things

762
00:25:42,690 --> 00:25:44,880
was we asked students to simply look back

763
00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:47,460
what about the experience you've just had,

764
00:25:47,460 --> 00:25:48,410
whether or not it was the first project

765
00:25:48,410 --> 00:25:50,880
or this first section of the course.

766
00:25:50,880 --> 00:25:52,500
What about it was challenging for you?

767
00:25:52,500 --> 00:25:53,670
What about it was surprising?

768
00:25:53,670 --> 00:25:55,800
What about it did you feel confident in?

769
00:25:55,800 --> 00:25:58,710
Which of the habits and skills
and processes and practices

770
00:25:58,710 --> 00:26:01,290
that we had you work
on were easier for you?

771
00:26:01,290 --> 00:26:02,123
Which were harder?

772
00:26:02,123 --> 00:26:05,100
Just to reflect back over
the short burst of time

773
00:26:05,100 --> 00:26:06,240
that we just had been working.

774
00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:09,030
And then the second half
is to simply look forward.

775
00:26:09,030 --> 00:26:10,560
Now that you've reflected back,

776
00:26:10,560 --> 00:26:13,549
look ahead, prospect, if you will,

777
00:26:13,549 --> 00:26:14,870
what do you wanna work on

778
00:26:14,870 --> 00:26:16,290
in this next section of the course?

779
00:26:16,290 --> 00:26:18,240
Which habits do you think
are strengths for you?

780
00:26:18,240 --> 00:26:19,950
Which are challenging you right now?

781
00:26:19,950 --> 00:26:22,380
Which of the practices that
we're asking you to practice

782
00:26:22,380 --> 00:26:24,480
are also more challenging than others?

783
00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:26,157
And so just a basic looking back

784
00:26:26,157 --> 00:26:28,230
and a basic looking
forward and a reflection.

785
00:26:28,230 --> 00:26:30,166
Students had great freedom then to select

786
00:26:30,166 --> 00:26:32,217
and tailor it to their own work

787
00:26:32,217 --> 00:26:34,140
and their own kind of metacognitive space.

788
00:26:34,140 --> 00:26:35,550
Michael- And I think that approach

789
00:26:35,550 --> 00:26:37,560
really couples that
metacognitive reflection

790
00:26:37,560 --> 00:26:39,120
with transfer, right?

791
00:26:39,120 --> 00:26:40,200
And the ability to think about

792
00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:41,550
how am I gonna take these skills

793
00:26:41,550 --> 00:26:44,040
that I've been working on
for these last few weeks?

794
00:26:44,040 --> 00:26:46,380
And how else can I apply those
right in my other classes,

795
00:26:46,380 --> 00:26:48,300
in my career, in my community?

796
00:26:48,300 --> 00:26:49,410
And so I love how you've paired

797
00:26:49,410 --> 00:26:51,030
that looking back and looking forward.

798
00:26:51,030 --> 00:26:53,670
Zach- Yeah, reflection is crucial to transfer.

799
00:26:53,670 --> 00:26:55,377
All studies suggest that
that's a key component

800
00:26:55,377 --> 00:26:57,810
to transferring skills
or practices or habits.

801
00:26:57,810 --> 00:27:00,030
And so glad you said
that, Michael, thanks.

802
00:27:00,030 --> 00:27:01,440
Michael- Sure.

803
00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:02,460
Sean- And with these changes,

804
00:27:02,460 --> 00:27:04,380
I've noticed personally with my students

805
00:27:04,380 --> 00:27:06,240
that they are so sincere,

806
00:27:06,240 --> 00:27:08,763
and for better or worse, extremely honest.

807
00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:11,400
It's really nice to see them

808
00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:13,290
just taking that agency
and running with it.

809
00:27:13,290 --> 00:27:14,194
Michael- That's great.

810
00:27:14,194 --> 00:27:16,777
(bright music)

811
00:27:17,670 --> 00:27:19,500
Mary- Okay, so let's just stop for a moment

812
00:27:19,500 --> 00:27:21,300
and call what's happening out,

813
00:27:21,300 --> 00:27:23,430
because it's important people know.

814
00:27:23,430 --> 00:27:24,870
When we're talking about student agency,

815
00:27:24,870 --> 00:27:26,280
it kind of goes hand in hand

816
00:27:26,280 --> 00:27:28,170
with the process that they're implementing

817
00:27:28,170 --> 00:27:30,960
around students choosing which
communities they engage with

818
00:27:30,960 --> 00:27:33,810
and how they engage with their
work and their assessments.

819
00:27:33,810 --> 00:27:36,780
Those are very Universal
Design for Learning approaches.

820
00:27:36,780 --> 00:27:40,560
So I just wanted to highlight
Universal Design for Learning.

821
00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:42,690
It's a fabulous opportunity

822
00:27:42,690 --> 00:27:44,580
for you to take an intentional
look at your course

823
00:27:44,580 --> 00:27:48,600
and find out how you can
improve the experience

824
00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:49,920
from the student's perspective.

825
00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:52,050
How can you make it more learner-centered?

826
00:27:52,050 --> 00:27:53,520
Michael- From my perspective with UDL,

827
00:27:53,520 --> 00:27:54,353
where we're trying to get at

828
00:27:54,353 --> 00:27:56,640
is a more authentic learner experience.

829
00:27:56,640 --> 00:27:58,200
And so I know right now,

830
00:27:58,200 --> 00:27:59,550
we talk about a little bit in the episode,

831
00:27:59,550 --> 00:28:01,920
but ChatGPT and Generative AI,

832
00:28:01,920 --> 00:28:03,837
and you know, there's
so many concerns about,

833
00:28:03,837 --> 00:28:05,100
oh, were students gonna be cheating

834
00:28:05,100 --> 00:28:06,570
and how are they gonna
get around my assessments

835
00:28:06,570 --> 00:28:07,950
and things like that.

836
00:28:07,950 --> 00:28:09,480
Universal Design for Learning,

837
00:28:09,480 --> 00:28:10,313
a lot of times,

838
00:28:10,313 --> 00:28:12,780
is able to get around those
sort of stop gaps, right?

839
00:28:12,780 --> 00:28:15,330
Because you are creating
authentic assessments for students

840
00:28:15,330 --> 00:28:16,527
and meeting them where they are.

841
00:28:16,527 --> 00:28:17,850
And so again, I think,

842
00:28:17,850 --> 00:28:19,890
not only is it a much more

843
00:28:19,890 --> 00:28:22,020
impactful learning
experience for the student,

844
00:28:22,020 --> 00:28:24,090
but when we think about it
from the faculty perspective,

845
00:28:24,090 --> 00:28:26,760
and again kind of those
fears about Generative AI,

846
00:28:26,760 --> 00:28:28,260
I think again, UDL is a way

847
00:28:28,260 --> 00:28:30,540
to decrease some of those concerns.

848
00:28:30,540 --> 00:28:33,480
Liz- Yeah, and from a design
perspective as well,

849
00:28:33,480 --> 00:28:35,370
this course between working with you,

850
00:28:35,370 --> 00:28:37,380
working with some of the
other great resources

851
00:28:37,380 --> 00:28:38,248
at ASU and the faculty

852
00:28:38,248 --> 00:28:41,070
that have been helping
design these courses,

853
00:28:41,070 --> 00:28:42,390
we've been able to provide

854
00:28:42,390 --> 00:28:44,760
kind of hit the three pillars of UDL

855
00:28:44,760 --> 00:28:46,860
through multiple means of engagement.

856
00:28:46,860 --> 00:28:48,690
Students really get a lot of opportunities

857
00:28:48,690 --> 00:28:51,378
to choose how and when they learn.

858
00:28:51,378 --> 00:28:53,340
multiple means of representation

859
00:28:53,340 --> 00:28:57,410
in terms of how we present
content both in video.

860
00:28:57,410 --> 00:29:00,002
We have some podcast
kind of forms out there.

861
00:29:00,002 --> 00:29:03,030
We have an interactive textbook.

862
00:29:03,030 --> 00:29:05,250
Just so many ways for the
students to be engaged

863
00:29:05,250 --> 00:29:06,690
with the course content.

864
00:29:06,690 --> 00:29:08,340
And then in terms of action expression,

865
00:29:08,340 --> 00:29:10,260
I'd say that that's really well covered

866
00:29:10,260 --> 00:29:12,120
in the profile projects

867
00:29:12,120 --> 00:29:13,710
and the Google site project

868
00:29:13,710 --> 00:29:15,720
where students really get
that hands-on experience

869
00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:18,060
and get to create on their own

870
00:29:18,060 --> 00:29:21,060
and get to define how
they represent themselves

871
00:29:21,060 --> 00:29:23,040
kind of in this world
through that project.

872
00:29:23,040 --> 00:29:25,345
Mary- Yeah, they really do
hit the multiple means

873
00:29:25,345 --> 00:29:28,290
of engagement vein of UDL,

874
00:29:28,290 --> 00:29:31,080
like specifically around
the relevance and value

875
00:29:31,080 --> 00:29:32,670
of the experience for the student.

876
00:29:32,670 --> 00:29:34,710
'Cause they're picking
where they're engaging

877
00:29:34,710 --> 00:29:36,570
and then the sustained
effort and persistence

878
00:29:36,570 --> 00:29:38,280
around their self-reflections

879
00:29:38,280 --> 00:29:39,420
and like what are the skills

880
00:29:39,420 --> 00:29:40,349
you're gonna be working on now?

881
00:29:40,349 --> 00:29:43,380
And they choose them and, I mean,

882
00:29:43,380 --> 00:29:45,240
they're creating their
own assessment structure

883
00:29:45,240 --> 00:29:46,890
based on what's their baseline

884
00:29:46,890 --> 00:29:50,160
and then getting graded
based on their own success,

885
00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:52,260
not on some, you know,

886
00:29:52,260 --> 00:29:54,300
general criteria that's in a rubric

887
00:29:54,300 --> 00:29:56,250
that doesn't actually have
personal value to them.

888
00:29:56,250 --> 00:29:57,270
Liz- Yeah, not only that,

889
00:29:57,270 --> 00:30:00,810
but I think that as Zach and everyone here

890
00:30:00,810 --> 00:30:02,205
kind of mentioned at one point or another,

891
00:30:02,205 --> 00:30:05,010
these courses are hard
for a lot of students.

892
00:30:05,010 --> 00:30:06,588
There's a lot of anxiety and challenges

893
00:30:06,588 --> 00:30:08,850
that come up with your first-year writing.

894
00:30:08,850 --> 00:30:11,100
There's a lot of negative feelings

895
00:30:11,100 --> 00:30:13,350
that students pick up
from writing in previous,

896
00:30:13,350 --> 00:30:15,870
like lifetimes and experiences.

897
00:30:15,870 --> 00:30:19,860
So having that as an avenue

898
00:30:19,860 --> 00:30:22,230
really can also help
increase that motivation,

899
00:30:22,230 --> 00:30:25,350
especially when you can see
how this is gonna help you,

900
00:30:25,350 --> 00:30:27,540
not just in an academic career sense,

901
00:30:27,540 --> 00:30:29,640
but in like my actual career

902
00:30:29,640 --> 00:30:32,280
and how it's gonna help me
in my writing right now today

903
00:30:32,280 --> 00:30:34,542
in my Facebook posts, in my Twitters,

904
00:30:34,542 --> 00:30:36,710
in my exes?

905
00:30:36,710 --> 00:30:38,700
Whatever it's called now.
Mary- Identity crisis.

906
00:30:38,700 --> 00:30:40,890
Still I don't know what
to call 'em either.

907
00:30:40,890 --> 00:30:42,690
Liz- Or you know,

908
00:30:42,690 --> 00:30:44,370
if you're a NANRAMA kid,

909
00:30:44,370 --> 00:30:46,800
you know, my Nana Ram,

910
00:30:46,800 --> 00:30:48,420
my national writing month,

911
00:30:48,420 --> 00:30:50,430
novel writing month thing,

912
00:30:50,430 --> 00:30:51,283
cut all that out.

913
00:30:51,283 --> 00:30:52,980
Mary- We're not cutting any of that out.

914
00:30:52,980 --> 00:30:55,470
But I do wanna say like
that's self-regulation

915
00:30:55,470 --> 00:30:56,790
under the guideline for engagement.

916
00:30:56,790 --> 00:30:59,370
Like that's one of the
ninth guideline I think?

917
00:30:59,370 --> 00:31:03,540
And promoting their ability
to do self-assessment,

918
00:31:03,540 --> 00:31:05,490
create coping skills,

919
00:31:05,490 --> 00:31:07,830
I mean, just intentionally be reflective

920
00:31:07,830 --> 00:31:09,000
and then action-oriented.

921
00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:12,210
Ricardo- And so part of that too is
the multimodal opportunities

922
00:31:12,210 --> 00:31:13,890
that they have to go with assignments.

923
00:31:13,890 --> 00:31:15,217
So what is that?

924
00:31:15,217 --> 00:31:16,950
What's the scope of that?

925
00:31:16,950 --> 00:31:20,431
What can a student turn
in absolutely anything

926
00:31:20,431 --> 00:31:21,870
as an assignment

927
00:31:21,870 --> 00:31:24,000
or what are the limits there?

928
00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:24,833
Liz- You know, honestly,

929
00:31:24,833 --> 00:31:26,350
they can almost turn
in just about anything.

930
00:31:26,350 --> 00:31:28,050
There is not a lot of limit.

931
00:31:28,050 --> 00:31:30,750
It is really up to the
students on what they can do.

932
00:31:30,750 --> 00:31:32,207
There's very few guidelines

933
00:31:32,207 --> 00:31:34,200
and they're very open-ended

934
00:31:34,200 --> 00:31:37,230
just to encourage that creativity

935
00:31:37,230 --> 00:31:39,420
from the student's point of view

936
00:31:39,420 --> 00:31:42,000
and to really make sure that
students have that opportunity

937
00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:46,230
to express themselves in whatever
means and representations

938
00:31:46,230 --> 00:31:48,990
or means of representation
that matter most to them

939
00:31:48,990 --> 00:31:50,940
and help get their point across.

940
00:31:50,940 --> 00:31:53,010
So it could be an all memed paper

941
00:31:53,010 --> 00:31:54,090
if you really want it to be.

942
00:31:54,090 --> 00:31:56,567
Ricardo- Well, then how do you
grade something like that?

943
00:31:56,567 --> 00:31:59,610
Or are you hitting certain criteria?

944
00:31:59,610 --> 00:32:02,460
Michael- Well, I think one of the
really important pieces of that

945
00:32:02,460 --> 00:32:04,440
is being intentional with
what they're choosing, right?

946
00:32:04,440 --> 00:32:05,273
We don't want students

947
00:32:05,273 --> 00:32:07,140
to just give us a Microsoft Word document

948
00:32:07,140 --> 00:32:09,150
where they just copy and paste
it a bunch of pictures in

949
00:32:09,150 --> 00:32:11,940
just because we told them
to make it multimodal.

950
00:32:11,940 --> 00:32:14,280
We really want them to think
about what is the impact

951
00:32:14,280 --> 00:32:15,480
that this image is going to have.

952
00:32:15,480 --> 00:32:17,610
So if I'm writing about,

953
00:32:17,610 --> 00:32:19,320
you know, people who are
experiencing homelessness

954
00:32:19,320 --> 00:32:20,250
in Phoenix, Arizona,

955
00:32:20,250 --> 00:32:23,190
I could choose a picture of
a empty, dirty alley, right?

956
00:32:23,190 --> 00:32:24,240
Which we might associate

957
00:32:24,240 --> 00:32:25,923
with someone who is
experiencing homelessness,

958
00:32:25,923 --> 00:32:28,410
and that could have an impact, right?

959
00:32:28,410 --> 00:32:29,460
But think about an image

960
00:32:29,460 --> 00:32:32,190
where you're looking into
the face of a person,

961
00:32:32,190 --> 00:32:34,320
a human being who's experiencing that,

962
00:32:34,320 --> 00:32:36,480
that is the image that we
want in your paper, right?

963
00:32:36,480 --> 00:32:39,510
And so those are the types of the feedback

964
00:32:39,510 --> 00:32:40,887
that these faculty are
gonna be giving the students

965
00:32:40,887 --> 00:32:44,100
to help them really think
about how do I be intentional

966
00:32:44,100 --> 00:32:46,380
with the pieces of
media that I'm including

967
00:32:46,380 --> 00:32:48,960
to help really increase
the rhetorical impact

968
00:32:48,960 --> 00:32:50,640
that I'm having with my audience.

969
00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:53,580
Mary- And that just is a more
authentic assessment process,

970
00:32:53,580 --> 00:32:55,050
not only from the students' experience

971
00:32:55,050 --> 00:32:57,450
of creating the product
through the process,

972
00:32:57,450 --> 00:32:59,250
but from the faculty's perspective.

973
00:32:59,250 --> 00:33:01,620
You're not giving the
same feedback every time.

974
00:33:01,620 --> 00:33:03,480
It's a different experience every time.

975
00:33:03,480 --> 00:33:05,400
It's an authentic conversation

976
00:33:05,400 --> 00:33:07,260
for that individual student's success.

977
00:33:07,260 --> 00:33:08,763
And that's actually super meaningful,

978
00:33:08,763 --> 00:33:11,790
especially in a class
that's at this scale.

979
00:33:11,790 --> 00:33:13,590
Michael- One of the really cool
things that they get to do

980
00:33:13,590 --> 00:33:16,170
in some of these courses
is create an infographic

981
00:33:16,170 --> 00:33:19,260
or a public service announcement
or an advocacy ad, right?

982
00:33:19,260 --> 00:33:22,170
And so one of the fun
things that I get to do

983
00:33:22,170 --> 00:33:23,357
is I go to our success coaches

984
00:33:23,357 --> 00:33:24,576
and I actually train them

985
00:33:24,576 --> 00:33:26,820
about these first-year composition courses

986
00:33:26,820 --> 00:33:28,509
so that they can have more robust,

987
00:33:28,509 --> 00:33:30,630
effective conversations
with their students

988
00:33:30,630 --> 00:33:32,640
to prepare them and coach them
through those courses, right?

989
00:33:32,640 --> 00:33:33,720
And so one of the things

990
00:33:33,720 --> 00:33:35,730
that I always tell these coaches is,

991
00:33:35,730 --> 00:33:36,817
you know, your students may be like,

992
00:33:36,817 --> 00:33:38,430
"Why am I creating an infographic

993
00:33:38,430 --> 00:33:39,363
in a first-year composition course?

994
00:33:39,363 --> 00:33:42,090
This is not graphic design class, right?"

995
00:33:42,090 --> 00:33:45,540
But think about the modern
digital 21st century audience.

996
00:33:45,540 --> 00:33:48,420
Are they gonna read an
eight-page academic paper,

997
00:33:48,420 --> 00:33:50,665
or are they gonna read
a one-page infographic?

998
00:33:50,665 --> 00:33:52,170
It's the latter of the two, right?

999
00:33:52,170 --> 00:33:53,190
So we are arming our students

1000
00:33:53,190 --> 00:33:56,010
not only how to be successful
in the academic environment

1001
00:33:56,010 --> 00:33:58,080
by writing APA style papers,

1002
00:33:58,080 --> 00:34:00,060
but we're also giving them that power

1003
00:34:00,060 --> 00:34:01,650
and the ability to go out and communicate

1004
00:34:01,650 --> 00:34:04,200
in a way that the modern digital audience

1005
00:34:04,200 --> 00:34:05,033
wants to receive information.

1006
00:34:05,033 --> 00:34:06,562
Liz- Yeah, I think that
that's my favorite part

1007
00:34:06,562 --> 00:34:09,517
about these classes is that
they do give you this skills

1008
00:34:09,517 --> 00:34:11,010
and the information that you need

1009
00:34:11,010 --> 00:34:14,130
to be a successful student
in the academic field,

1010
00:34:14,130 --> 00:34:15,900
but they give you this more immediate,

1011
00:34:15,900 --> 00:34:19,200
real world writing experience
in terms of, you know,

1012
00:34:19,200 --> 00:34:21,000
the fact that you're gonna
need to write an email tomorrow

1013
00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:21,833
for your job

1014
00:34:21,833 --> 00:34:24,750
or create an infographic for your work.

1015
00:34:24,750 --> 00:34:28,020
I mean, I think you and
I make them all the time.

1016
00:34:28,020 --> 00:34:30,240
So that's a really relevant skill,

1017
00:34:30,240 --> 00:34:33,390
as well as creating the
Google site for the portfolio.

1018
00:34:33,390 --> 00:34:36,300
Being able to communicate through
not just written language,

1019
00:34:36,300 --> 00:34:39,150
but also how you intentionally
incorporate those images

1020
00:34:39,150 --> 00:34:42,180
to help further support what
you're trying to get across.

1021
00:34:42,180 --> 00:34:43,860
That's very modern, very real.

1022
00:34:43,860 --> 00:34:45,300
Ricardo- Very modern, very real.

1023
00:34:45,300 --> 00:34:48,000
Though I like
Frankenstein and poetry so.

1024
00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:49,123
Michael- Yeah, same.

1025
00:34:49,123 --> 00:34:51,660
(bright music)

1026
00:34:51,660 --> 00:34:54,780
Michael- Okay, so before we switch
gears away from curriculum,

1027
00:34:54,780 --> 00:34:57,960
we gotta talk about the
elephant in the room, right?

1028
00:34:57,960 --> 00:34:59,190
Artificial intelligence,

1029
00:34:59,190 --> 00:35:01,260
and especially generative
artificial intelligence.

1030
00:35:01,260 --> 00:35:04,020
So in a first-year composition course,

1031
00:35:04,020 --> 00:35:05,790
I can imagine that there might be

1032
00:35:05,790 --> 00:35:08,730
some concern, some excitement,
some fear, some trepidation,

1033
00:35:08,730 --> 00:35:10,920
lots and lots of different feelings.

1034
00:35:10,920 --> 00:35:12,870
What are y'all thinking
about generative AI

1035
00:35:12,870 --> 00:35:15,600
and how you see it potentially
being used or not being used

1036
00:35:15,600 --> 00:35:17,370
in your first-year composition courses?

1037
00:35:17,370 --> 00:35:19,200
Michelle- Wow, yeah, that is the
elephant in the room.

1038
00:35:19,200 --> 00:35:20,790
I think that everyone's talking about it.

1039
00:35:20,790 --> 00:35:21,750
And believe it or not,

1040
00:35:21,750 --> 00:35:23,130
it's only been a year, I think,

1041
00:35:23,130 --> 00:35:26,940
since ChatGPT 2, was it two, initially?

1042
00:35:26,940 --> 00:35:28,830
It launched and a lot has already changed.

1043
00:35:28,830 --> 00:35:32,610
And it's really become the
focus of a lot of conversations

1044
00:35:32,610 --> 00:35:34,920
about not just the teaching
and learning of writing,

1045
00:35:34,920 --> 00:35:36,780
but teaching and learning more broadly.

1046
00:35:36,780 --> 00:35:40,920
So I think what we're talking
about now is, you know,

1047
00:35:40,920 --> 00:35:45,360
we definitely don't want
to try to be an AI detector

1048
00:35:45,360 --> 00:35:47,640
or the AI police

1049
00:35:47,640 --> 00:35:49,920
because the cat is out of the bag.

1050
00:35:49,920 --> 00:35:51,510
And so really, you know,

1051
00:35:51,510 --> 00:35:53,820
the conversations that we're
having programmatically

1052
00:35:53,820 --> 00:35:57,300
are about how we can teach students

1053
00:35:57,300 --> 00:35:59,400
how to use it as a partner,

1054
00:35:59,400 --> 00:36:01,950
as a tool to improve their writing,

1055
00:36:01,950 --> 00:36:04,500
but not as a substitution

1056
00:36:04,500 --> 00:36:07,770
for the difficult thinking and
learning that they need to do

1057
00:36:07,770 --> 00:36:09,360
in all of their classes.

1058
00:36:09,360 --> 00:36:12,720
Zach- Yeah, and I would say
given our process focus,

1059
00:36:12,720 --> 00:36:15,420
I've never been stressed about
AI since this has started.

1060
00:36:15,420 --> 00:36:16,530
I'm more interested in seeing,

1061
00:36:16,530 --> 00:36:18,090
as Michelle said, how it can work

1062
00:36:18,090 --> 00:36:20,670
with and for our students in collaboration

1063
00:36:20,670 --> 00:36:22,320
to help them generate ideas.

1064
00:36:22,320 --> 00:36:24,040
I could see how perhaps teachers

1065
00:36:24,040 --> 00:36:25,620
or professors in other disciplines

1066
00:36:25,620 --> 00:36:28,260
who are focused on products
may have more anxiety

1067
00:36:28,260 --> 00:36:30,270
about where's that product come from.

1068
00:36:30,270 --> 00:36:32,504
But in a process-based course like ours,

1069
00:36:32,504 --> 00:36:35,220
it's more interesting
than scary, I would say.

1070
00:36:35,220 --> 00:36:36,570
Sean- It's also really easy to tell

1071
00:36:36,570 --> 00:36:37,890
when they have used those tools

1072
00:36:37,890 --> 00:36:39,120
to do their writing for them.

1073
00:36:39,120 --> 00:36:41,820
But I've approached the
feedback the same way I would

1074
00:36:41,820 --> 00:36:44,640
if they had approached
their writing personally,

1075
00:36:44,640 --> 00:36:46,200
but they didn't put a
lot of effort into it.

1076
00:36:46,200 --> 00:36:47,850
So you give the same type of feedback.

1077
00:36:47,850 --> 00:36:50,520
Please add more details or specifics here,

1078
00:36:50,520 --> 00:36:51,402
especially with their reflections,

1079
00:36:51,402 --> 00:36:54,300
because they're supposed
to be really sincere.

1080
00:36:54,300 --> 00:36:57,240
Some of them might try to use
AI to write that for them,

1081
00:36:57,240 --> 00:36:58,073
but then you're like,

1082
00:36:58,073 --> 00:36:59,850
where are your specific personal examples

1083
00:36:59,850 --> 00:37:00,840
and connections to this?

1084
00:37:00,840 --> 00:37:02,474
Where are you transferring
it in your own life?

1085
00:37:02,474 --> 00:37:05,610
Because ChatGPT doesn't
know those details.

1086
00:37:05,610 --> 00:37:06,510
And because they're writing

1087
00:37:06,510 --> 00:37:07,590
about their personal communities,

1088
00:37:07,590 --> 00:37:09,670
it's just such a complex process for them.

1089
00:37:09,670 --> 00:37:13,410
But I've also leaned into
using it as a tool such as,

1090
00:37:13,410 --> 00:37:14,973
you know, something I read on Reddit,

1091
00:37:14,973 --> 00:37:17,588
another professor said
that they've used it

1092
00:37:17,588 --> 00:37:20,640
to give their students a
24/7 tutor for their writing

1093
00:37:20,640 --> 00:37:23,430
because they can put their
work that they've already done

1094
00:37:23,430 --> 00:37:25,710
and get quick feedback from
a certain point of view.

1095
00:37:25,710 --> 00:37:27,570
Here are some prompts you can try

1096
00:37:27,570 --> 00:37:29,100
to get different types of feedback

1097
00:37:29,100 --> 00:37:30,210
depending on what you're looking for

1098
00:37:30,210 --> 00:37:31,860
to improve on in your own work.

1099
00:37:31,860 --> 00:37:33,870
So that's what I've kind
of done with my students

1100
00:37:33,870 --> 00:37:36,030
and I've had some success
with it this semester.

1101
00:37:36,030 --> 00:37:37,882
John- Yeah, we're actually already
kind of starting to pilot

1102
00:37:37,882 --> 00:37:39,258
some of that stuff in our courses.

1103
00:37:39,258 --> 00:37:41,430
And in the spring,
we're gonna be expanding

1104
00:37:41,430 --> 00:37:45,030
some of that stuff to more
sections, more students.

1105
00:37:45,030 --> 00:37:47,220
Yeah, integrating things
like ChatGPT and Word Tune

1106
00:37:47,220 --> 00:37:49,710
into assignments and asking
students to honestly,

1107
00:37:49,710 --> 00:37:50,760
you know, tell us how they used it,

1108
00:37:50,760 --> 00:37:52,257
what they thought, was it successful.

1109
00:37:52,257 --> 00:37:54,870
And some interesting results
so far across the board.

1110
00:37:54,870 --> 00:37:55,980
Some students love it.

1111
00:37:55,980 --> 00:37:57,927
Some students feel weird about using it.

1112
00:37:57,927 --> 00:38:00,030
And so it's not all good or all bad.

1113
00:38:00,030 --> 00:38:00,863
It's just something that's out there

1114
00:38:00,863 --> 00:38:03,570
that we have to recognize and run with.

1115
00:38:03,570 --> 00:38:05,880
Zach- In relationship to the
writing conversation in AI,

1116
00:38:05,880 --> 00:38:08,107
I would say to any teachers
or administrators out there

1117
00:38:08,107 --> 00:38:11,160
who are on the more
stressed and negative side

1118
00:38:11,160 --> 00:38:13,560
of AI in this regard,

1119
00:38:13,560 --> 00:38:15,000
I would say it's an opportunity.

1120
00:38:15,000 --> 00:38:16,470
It's an opportunity to evaluate

1121
00:38:16,470 --> 00:38:18,120
what writing you're assigning,

1122
00:38:18,120 --> 00:38:19,350
how you're teaching that writing.

1123
00:38:19,350 --> 00:38:21,030
If you're teaching that
writing to your students,

1124
00:38:21,030 --> 00:38:23,329
that's a good opportunity
to revisit the assignments,

1125
00:38:23,329 --> 00:38:25,680
ask students to do
writing in your courses.

1126
00:38:25,680 --> 00:38:27,360
Michelle- Yeah, I would say as writing teachers,

1127
00:38:27,360 --> 00:38:29,340
we've always fashioned ourselves

1128
00:38:29,340 --> 00:38:32,400
as more as coaches and
partners in learning

1129
00:38:32,400 --> 00:38:34,980
than as the old sage on the stage model.

1130
00:38:34,980 --> 00:38:37,680
And I think what AI is
gonna really make outdated

1131
00:38:37,680 --> 00:38:40,050
are things like people who give lectures

1132
00:38:40,050 --> 00:38:42,060
and then assign Scantrons.

1133
00:38:42,060 --> 00:38:43,710
Because, you know,

1134
00:38:43,710 --> 00:38:46,470
students can quickly complete those exams,

1135
00:38:46,470 --> 00:38:48,480
especially in online classes, right?

1136
00:38:48,480 --> 00:38:50,310
They can look up the information on AI,

1137
00:38:50,310 --> 00:38:53,940
They can input that into ChatGPT,

1138
00:38:53,940 --> 00:38:57,060
and so how can you really provide

1139
00:38:57,060 --> 00:39:00,120
these meaningful learning
experiences for students

1140
00:39:00,120 --> 00:39:02,940
that treat them as partners
in their own learning, right?

1141
00:39:02,940 --> 00:39:05,340
That's really where we wanna go

1142
00:39:05,340 --> 00:39:07,320
and continue to go with students.

1143
00:39:07,320 --> 00:39:09,060
I will say too though, that, you know,

1144
00:39:09,060 --> 00:39:12,345
I think anytime tools like this emerge,

1145
00:39:12,345 --> 00:39:15,930
there's rightfully a lot
of anxiety among faculty

1146
00:39:15,930 --> 00:39:18,540
about how they might be
forced to implement this

1147
00:39:18,540 --> 00:39:20,134
or what expectations there might be

1148
00:39:20,134 --> 00:39:20,967
around something like that.

1149
00:39:20,967 --> 00:39:22,650
And I will say, you know,

1150
00:39:22,650 --> 00:39:25,110
the conversations that
I've had across ASU,

1151
00:39:25,110 --> 00:39:29,520
the provost office has stressed
that whatever we do with AI,

1152
00:39:29,520 --> 00:39:31,020
the human will be at the center.

1153
00:39:31,020 --> 00:39:33,520
And I really appreciate the emphasis

1154
00:39:33,520 --> 00:39:36,180
that ASU has placed on that.

1155
00:39:36,180 --> 00:39:40,920
And I think that in tandem
with our new design aspiration

1156
00:39:40,920 --> 00:39:42,810
related to principled innovation

1157
00:39:42,810 --> 00:39:44,580
should be reassuring to a lot of us

1158
00:39:44,580 --> 00:39:48,300
who may be feeling anxious about
what this might mean for us

1159
00:39:48,300 --> 00:39:50,610
in terms of class size

1160
00:39:50,610 --> 00:39:53,610
or, you know, like AI teaching the class.

1161
00:39:53,610 --> 00:39:55,410
Because I think, you know,

1162
00:39:55,410 --> 00:39:57,150
as Zach and and John have said,

1163
00:39:57,150 --> 00:39:59,040
this is an opportunity

1164
00:39:59,040 --> 00:40:01,388
to really focus on the
things that we love most

1165
00:40:01,388 --> 00:40:03,218
about teaching and working with students,

1166
00:40:03,218 --> 00:40:05,202
and will give us a tool to do that

1167
00:40:05,202 --> 00:40:07,650
in a more sophisticated way.

1168
00:40:07,650 --> 00:40:10,740
Michael- I think that we have a new
episode maybe for season six

1169
00:40:10,740 --> 00:40:12,180
all about generative AI

1170
00:40:12,180 --> 00:40:14,100
in these first-year composition courses.

1171
00:40:14,100 --> 00:40:15,450
Maybe we can invite you back

1172
00:40:15,450 --> 00:40:16,461
to hear about some of these experiments

1173
00:40:16,461 --> 00:40:17,880
that are gonna be going on.

1174
00:40:17,880 --> 00:40:18,713
Michelle- We'd love that.

1175
00:40:18,713 --> 00:40:21,600
(bright music)

1176
00:40:21,600 --> 00:40:24,180
Liz- So speaking of doing
things intentionally,

1177
00:40:24,180 --> 00:40:26,910
I think one of the things
that Michelle touches on

1178
00:40:26,910 --> 00:40:28,258
is just their intentionality

1179
00:40:28,258 --> 00:40:30,810
and how well thought
out these courses are,

1180
00:40:30,810 --> 00:40:32,400
and kind of how they're using

1181
00:40:32,400 --> 00:40:35,820
the ideas of principled
innovation in their courses,

1182
00:40:35,820 --> 00:40:39,090
which really the core of
that to me is intentionality.

1183
00:40:39,090 --> 00:40:40,860
Ricardo- What's principled innovation?

1184
00:40:40,860 --> 00:40:43,320
Liz- Well, why would you would ask?

1185
00:40:43,320 --> 00:40:45,090
Liz- So principled innovation

1186
00:40:45,090 --> 00:40:47,700
is the ability to imagine new concepts,

1187
00:40:47,700 --> 00:40:51,330
catalyze ideas and form new
solutions guided by principles

1188
00:40:51,330 --> 00:40:54,240
that create positive change for humanity.

1189
00:40:54,240 --> 00:40:56,880
The question is, we can
innovate, but should we?

1190
00:40:56,880 --> 00:40:58,887
Which really gets back
to that intentionality.

1191
00:40:58,887 --> 00:41:00,480
Ricardo- Well, where does this come from?

1192
00:41:00,480 --> 00:41:01,530
Liz- Oh, this comes from ASU.

1193
00:41:01,530 --> 00:41:02,434
Mary- Oh, yeah, we totally branded this thing.

1194
00:41:02,434 --> 00:41:04,380
Ricardo- It is an ASU-branded thing.

1195
00:41:04,380 --> 00:41:06,150
Mary- Registered trademark.

1196
00:41:06,150 --> 00:41:07,590
Maybe not trademark, I don't know.

1197
00:41:07,590 --> 00:41:08,820
What's the circle around the R?

1198
00:41:08,820 --> 00:41:09,900
That's what it has.

1199
00:41:09,900 --> 00:41:10,920
Michael- Registered.
Ricardo- Registered, yeah.

1200
00:41:10,920 --> 00:41:12,180
Mary- Done registered.

1201
00:41:12,180 --> 00:41:14,340
Liz- I was gonna say, I don't
know if you've heard this,

1202
00:41:14,340 --> 00:41:17,416
but ASU is number one in innovation.

1203
00:41:17,416 --> 00:41:19,073
Michael- How many years in a row?
Liz- Nine years ago right now.

1204
00:41:19,073 --> 00:41:21,450
Mary-We were on eight infinity last year.

1205
00:41:21,450 --> 00:41:23,083
Liz- Yeah, but what's interesting about this

1206
00:41:23,083 --> 00:41:26,399
is that it really breaks
down into kind of four areas,

1207
00:41:26,399 --> 00:41:30,210
moral, civic, intellectual,
and performance.

1208
00:41:30,210 --> 00:41:32,520
I won't necessarily get
into the nitty gritty

1209
00:41:32,520 --> 00:41:33,570
about what all this means.

1210
00:41:33,570 --> 00:41:34,403
Liz- No, we'll put a link.

1211
00:41:34,403 --> 00:41:35,340
You guys can get into nitty gritty.

1212
00:41:35,340 --> 00:41:38,880
Mary-There's an entire website
dedicated to the PI process.

1213
00:41:38,880 --> 00:41:40,532
Liz- Yeah, there's a lot of
great information there.

1214
00:41:40,532 --> 00:41:43,320
But so much of that is
thinking about these four areas

1215
00:41:43,320 --> 00:41:45,461
in terms of how you're
intentionally integrating those

1216
00:41:45,461 --> 00:41:46,396
into your courses

1217
00:41:46,396 --> 00:41:48,750
and really what that means for students

1218
00:41:48,750 --> 00:41:49,830
when they leave here.

1219
00:41:49,830 --> 00:41:51,120
ASU is really committed

1220
00:41:51,120 --> 00:41:53,250
to not just making you a good student,

1221
00:41:53,250 --> 00:41:55,860
but a good, well-rounded
human being on the planet

1222
00:41:55,860 --> 00:41:58,260
who's thinking about the world around you

1223
00:41:58,260 --> 00:42:00,840
and not just what's in front of you,

1224
00:42:00,840 --> 00:42:02,490
but what's out there and beyond.

1225
00:42:02,490 --> 00:42:03,840
Ricardo- What a novel idea.

1226
00:42:03,840 --> 00:42:05,940
Mary- Yeah, shout out to the Mary
Lou Fulton's teacher college

1227
00:42:05,940 --> 00:42:06,773
for putting that all together.

1228
00:42:06,773 --> 00:42:08,250
(bright music)

1229
00:42:08,250 --> 00:42:09,690
Micahel- So let's switch gears a little bit

1230
00:42:09,690 --> 00:42:10,523
and I wanna talk about

1231
00:42:10,523 --> 00:42:12,450
some of the other really special things

1232
00:42:12,450 --> 00:42:13,590
outside of the curriculum

1233
00:42:13,590 --> 00:42:15,442
that take place in these
first-year composition courses.

1234
00:42:15,442 --> 00:42:17,250
And John, I'd like to start with you

1235
00:42:17,250 --> 00:42:18,900
and hear a little bit about your work

1236
00:42:18,900 --> 00:42:20,190
with the writing mentors

1237
00:42:20,190 --> 00:42:22,350
'cause I'm sure that
that phrase is unfamiliar

1238
00:42:22,350 --> 00:42:23,550
to many of our listeners

1239
00:42:23,550 --> 00:42:27,060
and then talk about their
work in the platform InScribe.

1240
00:42:27,060 --> 00:42:27,893
John- Sure, yeah.

1241
00:42:27,893 --> 00:42:29,670
So the term writing mentor

1242
00:42:29,670 --> 00:42:31,015
has gone through many
different variations.

1243
00:42:31,015 --> 00:42:33,840
I think they're called
writing fellows at one point.

1244
00:42:33,840 --> 00:42:35,186
It wouldn't be such a stretch

1245
00:42:35,186 --> 00:42:37,770
to even refer to 'em as TAs or tutors.

1246
00:42:37,770 --> 00:42:39,120
But what our writing mentors are,

1247
00:42:39,120 --> 00:42:40,290
as I mentioned earlier,

1248
00:42:40,290 --> 00:42:41,730
they're course-embedded peer tutors.

1249
00:42:41,730 --> 00:42:43,080
So, you know, in the Writer's Studio,

1250
00:42:43,080 --> 00:42:44,100
we have, what?

1251
00:42:44,100 --> 00:42:45,750
A hundred faculty members or so

1252
00:42:45,750 --> 00:42:47,460
across all the different Canvas shell,

1253
00:42:47,460 --> 00:42:49,020
but they're all teaching
the same curriculum,

1254
00:42:49,020 --> 00:42:51,060
and they all have a writing mentor

1255
00:42:51,060 --> 00:42:52,290
that's assigned to the course as well,

1256
00:42:52,290 --> 00:42:55,080
who works with both the
faculty and the students.

1257
00:42:55,080 --> 00:42:56,250
They're there for peer support,

1258
00:42:56,250 --> 00:42:57,659
things like just answering questions,

1259
00:42:57,659 --> 00:42:59,337
you know, monitoring
and grading discussion

1260
00:42:59,337 --> 00:43:01,320
and peer review assignments.

1261
00:43:01,320 --> 00:43:02,790
You know, holding drop in labs

1262
00:43:02,790 --> 00:43:04,068
where students can come
in and ask questions

1263
00:43:04,068 --> 00:43:06,090
about assignments that
are giving them trouble.

1264
00:43:06,090 --> 00:43:07,782
They'll hold workshops where the students,

1265
00:43:07,782 --> 00:43:10,140
you know, they can come and work over Zoom

1266
00:43:10,140 --> 00:43:12,000
for one-on-one help with their papers

1267
00:43:12,000 --> 00:43:13,200
synchronously in real time.

1268
00:43:13,200 --> 00:43:14,730
So they're just a really great resource

1269
00:43:14,730 --> 00:43:15,698
and really a big part

1270
00:43:15,698 --> 00:43:17,850
of what makes the Writers'
Studio so special.

1271
00:43:17,850 --> 00:43:20,250
Now, as part of the design changes

1272
00:43:20,250 --> 00:43:21,404
we've made over the last three years,

1273
00:43:21,404 --> 00:43:23,910
we have integrated a community

1274
00:43:23,910 --> 00:43:26,940
and communication platform
called InScribe into our courses.

1275
00:43:26,940 --> 00:43:28,020
What we used to have

1276
00:43:28,020 --> 00:43:29,880
in anybody that's familiar
with the Canvas course

1277
00:43:29,880 --> 00:43:31,260
will know about the discussions,

1278
00:43:31,260 --> 00:43:33,900
and we used to have a
community forum in every course

1279
00:43:33,900 --> 00:43:36,270
where students would just
be able to post a question

1280
00:43:36,270 --> 00:43:38,490
and then the writing mentor or instructor

1281
00:43:38,490 --> 00:43:39,360
would get back to them.

1282
00:43:39,360 --> 00:43:41,187
But we found those were hardly ever used.

1283
00:43:41,187 --> 00:43:43,530
You know, just imagine
a room full of cobwebs

1284
00:43:43,530 --> 00:43:45,510
or a tumbleweed drifting across,

1285
00:43:45,510 --> 00:43:46,893
you know, a barren landscape.

1286
00:43:46,893 --> 00:43:48,900
You'd get maybe a question or two.

1287
00:43:48,900 --> 00:43:50,135
It was clear that there's more questions

1288
00:43:50,135 --> 00:43:51,120
out there than that,

1289
00:43:51,120 --> 00:43:53,700
but that wasn't the right
format for those questions

1290
00:43:53,700 --> 00:43:54,660
and to help those students.

1291
00:43:54,660 --> 00:43:56,580
So what InScribe does is it serves

1292
00:43:56,580 --> 00:43:58,110
as kind of a digital study hall

1293
00:43:58,110 --> 00:43:59,820
where 24 hours a day,

1294
00:43:59,820 --> 00:44:00,750
you know, we have a team

1295
00:44:00,750 --> 00:44:02,790
of almost a hundred
writing mentors as well

1296
00:44:02,790 --> 00:44:03,990
who monitor this platform.

1297
00:44:03,990 --> 00:44:06,120
Students can post questions
anytime they want.

1298
00:44:06,120 --> 00:44:07,590
And within 24 hours,

1299
00:44:07,590 --> 00:44:09,330
any number of writing mentors,

1300
00:44:09,330 --> 00:44:10,402
you can get 2, 3, 4 responses,

1301
00:44:10,402 --> 00:44:11,850
we'll get back to that student.

1302
00:44:11,850 --> 00:44:13,080
You get a lot of stuff, you know,

1303
00:44:13,080 --> 00:44:14,490
like, what was the due date for this?

1304
00:44:14,490 --> 00:44:15,450
Or where do I find that?

1305
00:44:15,450 --> 00:44:17,700
But you get a lot of, you know,
interesting questions too.

1306
00:44:17,700 --> 00:44:19,342
Like, is this topic appropriate

1307
00:44:19,342 --> 00:44:21,930
or I'm having trouble
finding someone to interview.

1308
00:44:21,930 --> 00:44:24,540
And our writing mentors,
they're amazing people.

1309
00:44:24,540 --> 00:44:26,597
They're predominantly
undergraduate peer tutors.

1310
00:44:26,597 --> 00:44:29,370
A lot of them come directly
from the Writer's Studio,

1311
00:44:29,370 --> 00:44:30,244
Michael, like you did.

1312
00:44:30,244 --> 00:44:31,987
We'll have instructors reach out and say,

1313
00:44:31,987 --> 00:44:33,420
"Hey, you were such a great student.

1314
00:44:33,420 --> 00:44:35,370
Why don't you apply to
to be a writing mentor?"

1315
00:44:35,370 --> 00:44:37,650
So we have, I would say,

1316
00:44:37,650 --> 00:44:40,110
it's close to 50% of our writing mentors

1317
00:44:40,110 --> 00:44:41,670
came directly from the Writer's Studio.

1318
00:44:41,670 --> 00:44:43,320
But we also recruit through Barrett,

1319
00:44:43,320 --> 00:44:45,810
through, you know, the
English department newsletter,

1320
00:44:45,810 --> 00:44:46,643
things like that.

1321
00:44:46,643 --> 00:44:47,476
Mostly undergrads.

1322
00:44:47,476 --> 00:44:48,309
Some graduate students.

1323
00:44:48,309 --> 00:44:50,670
But they're all very
high achieving students.

1324
00:44:50,670 --> 00:44:53,370
They've succeeded in their
first-year composition courses

1325
00:44:53,370 --> 00:44:55,020
and they're just here to help students.

1326
00:44:55,020 --> 00:44:58,170
And InScribe has really helped
really connect our students

1327
00:44:58,170 --> 00:45:00,210
and our writing mentors
in ways that was needed

1328
00:45:00,210 --> 00:45:02,250
and wasn't there before.

1329
00:45:02,250 --> 00:45:04,260
Michael- And John, how many
writing mentors are there

1330
00:45:04,260 --> 00:45:05,790
in each class section?

1331
00:45:05,790 --> 00:45:07,320
John- Between 101 and 102,

1332
00:45:07,320 --> 00:45:11,790
I think there's around
40-ish in each course.

1333
00:45:11,790 --> 00:45:13,740
And then we just have a small handful.

1334
00:45:13,740 --> 00:45:16,980
Sean can attest, there's
not a large 105 population,

1335
00:45:16,980 --> 00:45:17,844
but we do have a handful,

1336
00:45:17,844 --> 00:45:21,240
maybe two or three or
four 105 writing mentors.

1337
00:45:21,240 --> 00:45:24,570
Michael- But is it true that every
single course has a instructor

1338
00:45:24,570 --> 00:45:26,490
and a writing mentor with them?

1339
00:45:26,490 --> 00:45:28,620
John- Yes, one to sometimes
two writing mentors,

1340
00:45:28,620 --> 00:45:29,850
Michael- Which I think that ratio,

1341
00:45:29,850 --> 00:45:31,950
when we think about our
high enrolling courses

1342
00:45:31,950 --> 00:45:34,710
at a huge university like ASU,

1343
00:45:34,710 --> 00:45:36,360
that instructor to student ratio

1344
00:45:36,360 --> 00:45:39,960
is incredibly special and
incredibly intentional.

1345
00:45:39,960 --> 00:45:40,852
Michelle, is there anything you wanna add?

1346
00:45:40,852 --> 00:45:42,450
I know you were very instrumental

1347
00:45:42,450 --> 00:45:44,760
in kind of getting this
program off the ground.

1348
00:45:44,760 --> 00:45:45,990
Michaelle- Yeah, well I think,

1349
00:45:45,990 --> 00:45:49,500
I know there was talk earlier
about high impact practices

1350
00:45:49,500 --> 00:45:52,920
and peer-to-peer learning
is so important for that.

1351
00:45:52,920 --> 00:45:54,660
Just like when we ask students

1352
00:45:54,660 --> 00:45:59,070
to evaluate or give feedback
on each other's writing,

1353
00:45:59,070 --> 00:46:02,670
the process of giving feedback
improve student learning.

1354
00:46:02,670 --> 00:46:05,340
And so these kinds of relationships

1355
00:46:05,340 --> 00:46:07,890
are valuable for everybody involved.

1356
00:46:07,890 --> 00:46:09,840
The students who are, you know,

1357
00:46:09,840 --> 00:46:12,785
in the class getting support
from their peer tutor,

1358
00:46:12,785 --> 00:46:14,610
their writing mentor,

1359
00:46:14,610 --> 00:46:15,900
the peer tutor themselves,

1360
00:46:15,900 --> 00:46:18,420
learn so much throughout the process.

1361
00:46:18,420 --> 00:46:20,670
And you know, we've had students stay on

1362
00:46:20,670 --> 00:46:21,930
for a master's program,

1363
00:46:21,930 --> 00:46:24,030
stay in the program as a writing mentor

1364
00:46:24,030 --> 00:46:25,500
throughout their masters.

1365
00:46:25,500 --> 00:46:27,660
And then even the faculty member, I think,

1366
00:46:27,660 --> 00:46:30,870
often benefits so much from
working with the writing mentor

1367
00:46:30,870 --> 00:46:32,580
because it gives them an opportunity

1368
00:46:32,580 --> 00:46:35,670
to see the class from a
student's perspective.

1369
00:46:35,670 --> 00:46:38,310
And so it's just really a wonderful

1370
00:46:38,310 --> 00:46:40,407
community building program that we have.

1371
00:46:40,407 --> 00:46:41,700
And I just wanna add one more thing

1372
00:46:41,700 --> 00:46:42,690
and then I'll let John take over,

1373
00:46:42,690 --> 00:46:45,270
but I don't know if there's any other,

1374
00:46:45,270 --> 00:46:48,960
or any program that's
quite as large as ours

1375
00:46:48,960 --> 00:46:51,330
that provides this kind of opportunity

1376
00:46:51,330 --> 00:46:55,170
for ASU online students
to work for ASU, right?

1377
00:46:55,170 --> 00:46:58,680
And then to be part of
a community of students

1378
00:46:58,680 --> 00:47:00,720
in the way that our writing mentors are

1379
00:47:00,720 --> 00:47:02,580
who are, as John said,

1380
00:47:02,580 --> 00:47:04,830
predominantly ASU online students.

1381
00:47:04,830 --> 00:47:05,790
John- I was just gonna say, Michelle,

1382
00:47:05,790 --> 00:47:08,100
you mentioned community
building relationships.

1383
00:47:08,100 --> 00:47:10,200
We have a number of faculty members

1384
00:47:10,200 --> 00:47:12,150
who started out as writing mentors, right?

1385
00:47:12,150 --> 00:47:13,139
Michelle- Yes, we do actually

1386
00:47:13,139 --> 00:47:15,090
who are getting their masters at the time.

1387
00:47:15,090 --> 00:47:16,260
John- And instructional designers.

1388
00:47:16,260 --> 00:47:18,420
Michelle- And instructional designers, yeah.

1389
00:47:18,420 --> 00:47:20,613
Our reach extends broadly.

1390
00:47:21,689 --> 00:47:23,430
Sean- And just to quickly add to that,

1391
00:47:23,430 --> 00:47:25,410
I love how many of the writing mentors

1392
00:47:25,410 --> 00:47:27,450
come from multiple disciplines too.

1393
00:47:27,450 --> 00:47:30,627
I have a lot of past writing
mentors who were STEM students

1394
00:47:30,627 --> 00:47:32,670
and they've gone into
engineering for example.

1395
00:47:32,670 --> 00:47:34,590
And that's such a cool
perspective to bring,

1396
00:47:34,590 --> 00:47:36,990
especially for our STEM
students in the courses

1397
00:47:36,990 --> 00:47:38,077
who might not think,

1398
00:47:38,077 --> 00:47:38,940
"Oh, I don't need to learn

1399
00:47:38,940 --> 00:47:40,710
how to write or communicate in this way."

1400
00:47:40,710 --> 00:47:42,030
John- It's actually almost a surprise

1401
00:47:42,030 --> 00:47:44,280
when we have English majors who apply.

1402
00:47:44,280 --> 00:47:45,930
It's like, "Oh, they're still out there.

1403
00:47:45,930 --> 00:47:46,763
Okay, cool."

1404
00:47:46,763 --> 00:47:47,596
Sean- Yeah.

1405
00:47:47,596 --> 00:47:50,064
(bright music)

1406
00:47:51,330 --> 00:47:54,210
Mary- Mentoring, the writing mentorship.

1407
00:47:54,210 --> 00:47:55,370
What is that like? You were one.

1408
00:47:55,370 --> 00:47:58,140
Michael- It is a special, special role.

1409
00:47:58,140 --> 00:47:59,820
So as the writing mentor,

1410
00:47:59,820 --> 00:48:01,800
you're working one-on-one with a faculty

1411
00:48:01,800 --> 00:48:04,350
in your classroom of
about 25 to 35 students,

1412
00:48:04,350 --> 00:48:05,183
just kind of depending

1413
00:48:05,183 --> 00:48:07,500
on how long you've been a writing mentor.

1414
00:48:07,500 --> 00:48:09,180
And really what you're there to do,

1415
00:48:09,180 --> 00:48:12,180
again, is to primarily
answer any student questions

1416
00:48:12,180 --> 00:48:15,150
that are coming in about the
general course curriculum

1417
00:48:15,150 --> 00:48:17,730
and content and how to
navigate and things like that.

1418
00:48:17,730 --> 00:48:19,140
They also really engage with students

1419
00:48:19,140 --> 00:48:21,060
on any discussion assignments

1420
00:48:21,060 --> 00:48:22,440
to make sure that they feel

1421
00:48:22,440 --> 00:48:24,090
that there is that instructor present

1422
00:48:24,090 --> 00:48:25,140
within the course as well.

1423
00:48:25,140 --> 00:48:27,240
So not only that peer-to-peer interaction,

1424
00:48:27,240 --> 00:48:29,610
but that peer-to-instructor
interaction as well.

1425
00:48:29,610 --> 00:48:32,250
And then before the students are working

1426
00:48:32,250 --> 00:48:34,110
on their major project,

1427
00:48:34,110 --> 00:48:36,150
their major writing
project within the course,

1428
00:48:36,150 --> 00:48:39,480
the mentors also host what
are called revision workshops.

1429
00:48:39,480 --> 00:48:41,790
And these are one-hour workshops
where students can sign up,

1430
00:48:41,790 --> 00:48:44,485
and they now actually offer
them asynchronously as well,

1431
00:48:44,485 --> 00:48:46,761
for students like me
who couldn't find a time

1432
00:48:46,761 --> 00:48:48,150
to meet with someone else.

1433
00:48:48,150 --> 00:48:51,180
But these workshops are one hour

1434
00:48:51,180 --> 00:48:54,030
to get to meet with
somebody for the student

1435
00:48:54,030 --> 00:48:56,460
who goes through a training twice a year

1436
00:48:56,460 --> 00:48:58,110
about this course, about the content,

1437
00:48:58,110 --> 00:48:59,160
about the curriculum,

1438
00:48:59,160 --> 00:49:01,830
and really knows the
assignments really, really well.

1439
00:49:01,830 --> 00:49:03,960
So we would never discourage a student

1440
00:49:03,960 --> 00:49:05,580
from going to the ASU writing center

1441
00:49:05,580 --> 00:49:08,340
because they are also
phenomenally helpful.

1442
00:49:08,340 --> 00:49:10,560
But the writing mentors
are specifically trained

1443
00:49:10,560 --> 00:49:12,870
in the type of writing
and the type of projects

1444
00:49:12,870 --> 00:49:14,580
students are working on
within these courses.

1445
00:49:14,580 --> 00:49:17,362
So they're really a great go-to,

1446
00:49:17,362 --> 00:49:19,590
and again, being that peer model,

1447
00:49:19,590 --> 00:49:22,500
we wanted it to hopefully
decrease some of that pressure

1448
00:49:22,500 --> 00:49:23,653
of it's not a TA,

1449
00:49:23,653 --> 00:49:26,010
nothing official or scary like that.

1450
00:49:26,010 --> 00:49:26,843
It's another peer.

1451
00:49:26,843 --> 00:49:28,440
It's another student who's
gone through this course

1452
00:49:28,440 --> 00:49:29,980
and they understand what
you're going through.

1453
00:49:29,980 --> 00:49:32,160
Liz- Well, that's so nice
'cause it's so horrifying

1454
00:49:32,160 --> 00:49:33,607
to be like a brand new student who's like,

1455
00:49:33,607 --> 00:49:34,740
"I haven't written a paper

1456
00:49:34,740 --> 00:49:37,140
in say 25 years."

1457
00:49:37,140 --> 00:49:39,330
And then to be able to go to a peer

1458
00:49:39,330 --> 00:49:41,280
instead of you're really super scary,

1459
00:49:41,280 --> 00:49:43,950
although secretly really
nice faculty member,

1460
00:49:43,950 --> 00:49:45,150
but they seem super scary,

1461
00:49:45,150 --> 00:49:46,946
and get that feedback
from another student.

1462
00:49:46,946 --> 00:49:49,163
It's so less like intimidating.

1463
00:49:49,163 --> 00:49:50,550
So that's really cool.

1464
00:49:50,550 --> 00:49:51,720
And it also,

1465
00:49:51,720 --> 00:49:53,400
since there's students who've
gone through the course,

1466
00:49:53,400 --> 00:49:54,233
it's that sense of like,

1467
00:49:54,233 --> 00:49:56,760
"Look, I've come out the other side,

1468
00:49:56,760 --> 00:49:57,870
you will too.

1469
00:49:57,870 --> 00:50:00,210
Michael- And it's such a benefit to
our online students, you know,

1470
00:50:00,210 --> 00:50:03,720
to be able to get a job at the university,

1471
00:50:03,720 --> 00:50:04,800
like that is huge,

1472
00:50:04,800 --> 00:50:07,200
and it doesn't happen very often
for online students, right?

1473
00:50:07,200 --> 00:50:09,360
And then also to be able to
develop those connections

1474
00:50:09,360 --> 00:50:11,100
not only with other online students

1475
00:50:11,100 --> 00:50:13,410
but with instructors and with
those coordinators, right?

1476
00:50:13,410 --> 00:50:15,690
And they're developing
those mentor relationships

1477
00:50:15,690 --> 00:50:16,650
that again are gonna help them

1478
00:50:16,650 --> 00:50:17,910
get those recommendation letters

1479
00:50:17,910 --> 00:50:20,095
and things that again are
very challenging for students

1480
00:50:20,095 --> 00:50:22,800
in online environments to often get.

1481
00:50:22,800 --> 00:50:24,394
Ricardo- Well, the thing that
I'd like to highlight

1482
00:50:24,394 --> 00:50:26,790
is this new character that Liz has come up

1483
00:50:26,790 --> 00:50:29,823
with Southern woman who's
returning back to school 25 years.

1484
00:50:30,870 --> 00:50:32,149
Liz- Well, I haven't heard
of a web assessment

1485
00:50:32,149 --> 00:50:34,053
and why I said 25 years?

1486
00:50:35,391 --> 00:50:36,660
It's an old prospect.
Ricardo- I haven't touched

1487
00:50:36,660 --> 00:50:37,699
the word process, sir.

1488
00:50:37,699 --> 00:50:38,997
And I don't know how long.

1489
00:50:38,997 --> 00:50:40,283
Mary- Well, I never.

1490
00:50:40,283 --> 00:50:42,720
(bright music)

1491
00:50:42,720 --> 00:50:43,830
Michael- So before we move on,

1492
00:50:43,830 --> 00:50:45,810
I wanna talk a little
bit more about InScribe

1493
00:50:45,810 --> 00:50:46,950
because that's a new platform

1494
00:50:46,950 --> 00:50:48,870
that is becoming really popular

1495
00:50:48,870 --> 00:50:50,190
in a lot of our online courses.

1496
00:50:50,190 --> 00:50:51,900
And one of the cool things that I know,

1497
00:50:51,900 --> 00:50:54,180
the changes that we made was rather than,

1498
00:50:54,180 --> 00:50:56,040
you know, in that community forum model,

1499
00:50:56,040 --> 00:50:56,873
it was the, what?

1500
00:50:56,873 --> 00:51:00,420
25, 30 students and the
writing mentor alone

1501
00:51:00,420 --> 00:51:01,500
in that community forum.

1502
00:51:01,500 --> 00:51:02,460
John, tell us a little bit

1503
00:51:02,460 --> 00:51:03,690
about what's different with InScribe.

1504
00:51:03,690 --> 00:51:06,120
John- Sure, so InScribe is,

1505
00:51:06,120 --> 00:51:07,950
you know, it's available 24/7,

1506
00:51:07,950 --> 00:51:10,890
and that really, really helps
serve our student population.

1507
00:51:10,890 --> 00:51:11,880
You know, as Michelle mentioned earlier,

1508
00:51:11,880 --> 00:51:13,830
we have a very diverse population.

1509
00:51:13,830 --> 00:51:14,710
It's not just all, you know,

1510
00:51:14,710 --> 00:51:17,525
18 to 20-year-old
first-time college students.

1511
00:51:17,525 --> 00:51:22,320
We have returning students
who work a nine-to-five job.

1512
00:51:22,320 --> 00:51:25,200
We have military students
who are stationed in Hawaii

1513
00:51:25,200 --> 00:51:26,613
or Japan or Germany,

1514
00:51:26,613 --> 00:51:28,692
you know, stay at home parents,

1515
00:51:28,692 --> 00:51:31,320
just students from across the globe.

1516
00:51:31,320 --> 00:51:35,340
So if you just consider a typical
teacher or writing mentor,

1517
00:51:35,340 --> 00:51:37,920
you know, it's not quite a nine-to-five,

1518
00:51:37,920 --> 00:51:39,960
but you know, yeah, business hours, right?

1519
00:51:39,960 --> 00:51:41,520
But with InScribe,

1520
00:51:41,520 --> 00:51:42,480
and we do have mentors

1521
00:51:42,480 --> 00:51:44,730
that are from across the globe as well.

1522
00:51:44,730 --> 00:51:46,890
And they're available 24/7.

1523
00:51:46,890 --> 00:51:50,820
So if a student gets off
of a shift at work at five,

1524
00:51:50,820 --> 00:51:51,653
they make dinner,

1525
00:51:51,653 --> 00:51:52,500
then they get to their homework,

1526
00:51:52,500 --> 00:51:53,490
it's nine or 10,

1527
00:51:53,490 --> 00:51:54,729
and they post a question,

1528
00:51:54,729 --> 00:51:57,690
they could get a response before
they go to bed that night.

1529
00:51:57,690 --> 00:52:00,630
Or a student in Hawaii that's
it's 6:00 AM Arizona time.

1530
00:52:00,630 --> 00:52:02,640
There's gonna be somebody keeping track

1531
00:52:02,640 --> 00:52:04,800
and hopping on to help them out.

1532
00:52:04,800 --> 00:52:08,460
Michelle- And even if it's not
one of our writing mentors

1533
00:52:08,460 --> 00:52:10,020
who's there responding to questions,

1534
00:52:10,020 --> 00:52:13,020
it might be a peer who has
the answer to that question.

1535
00:52:13,020 --> 00:52:15,480
And one thing that John worked on

1536
00:52:15,480 --> 00:52:17,670
over the last few years was,

1537
00:52:17,670 --> 00:52:20,130
and I think Sean was
involved in this process too,

1538
00:52:20,130 --> 00:52:21,690
was collecting resources

1539
00:52:21,690 --> 00:52:24,810
and building those resources into InScribe

1540
00:52:24,810 --> 00:52:27,420
so that even if the
student can't get an answer

1541
00:52:27,420 --> 00:52:28,920
immediately to their question,

1542
00:52:28,920 --> 00:52:30,713
they can search within InScribe

1543
00:52:30,713 --> 00:52:34,500
for resources that we
have generated for them,

1544
00:52:34,500 --> 00:52:35,610
created for them

1545
00:52:35,610 --> 00:52:38,112
to help them potentially
solve the question at hand.

1546
00:52:38,112 --> 00:52:40,500
John- Yeah, you know, how do I cite an APA?

1547
00:52:40,500 --> 00:52:42,240
How do I write a thesis statement?

1548
00:52:42,240 --> 00:52:43,073
What's the difference

1549
00:52:43,073 --> 00:52:44,820
between primary and secondary research?

1550
00:52:44,820 --> 00:52:48,360
So we have resources built in to InScribe

1551
00:52:48,360 --> 00:52:51,360
that also link out to
places like Purdue Owl

1552
00:52:51,360 --> 00:52:53,880
or just other helpful
websites that are out there.

1553
00:52:53,880 --> 00:52:55,830
So there's not only active engagement

1554
00:52:55,830 --> 00:52:57,150
from their peers and from writing mentors,

1555
00:52:57,150 --> 00:53:00,150
but there's just static
builtin resources as well.

1556
00:53:00,150 --> 00:53:03,057
Sean- And they're a lot easier to
access than the typical FAQ

1557
00:53:03,057 --> 00:53:05,040
because it's powered by AI

1558
00:53:05,040 --> 00:53:06,960
to help students get to those answers.

1559
00:53:06,960 --> 00:53:08,550
And I just wanted to add also

1560
00:53:08,550 --> 00:53:11,580
that this has been a game
changer for work-life balance

1561
00:53:11,580 --> 00:53:13,410
and just wellness in general for us

1562
00:53:13,410 --> 00:53:17,070
because I used to make myself
way too available for students

1563
00:53:17,070 --> 00:53:18,240
and it has been helpful for me

1564
00:53:18,240 --> 00:53:22,207
to be able to firmly but
confidently step back and say,

1565
00:53:22,207 --> 00:53:24,090
"There are resources for you.

1566
00:53:24,090 --> 00:53:25,860
I'll be back tomorrow, yeah.

1567
00:53:25,860 --> 00:53:26,693
Michael- Absolutely, Sean.

1568
00:53:26,693 --> 00:53:27,570
And what I was gonna say, you know,

1569
00:53:27,570 --> 00:53:29,100
I was one of those
students getting my degree

1570
00:53:29,100 --> 00:53:30,330
where I was working three jobs

1571
00:53:30,330 --> 00:53:31,470
doing a full-time student load.

1572
00:53:31,470 --> 00:53:33,000
So I was working 90 hours a week.

1573
00:53:33,000 --> 00:53:34,320
So there were not,

1574
00:53:34,320 --> 00:53:35,640
I hope that y'all were asleep

1575
00:53:35,640 --> 00:53:37,320
by the time that I was
online doing homework.

1576
00:53:37,320 --> 00:53:39,540
But you know, Sean, you
touched on that AI piece of it,

1577
00:53:39,540 --> 00:53:41,760
which I think is so helpful
within InScribe too.

1578
00:53:41,760 --> 00:53:43,170
'Cause basically what it does

1579
00:53:43,170 --> 00:53:45,450
is as a student starts
to type their question,

1580
00:53:45,450 --> 00:53:46,890
InScribe's artificial intelligence

1581
00:53:46,890 --> 00:53:47,910
is gonna be reading that, right?

1582
00:53:47,910 --> 00:53:51,510
And so we pre-populate
InScribe with these FAQs

1583
00:53:51,510 --> 00:53:53,427
based off of commonly asked questions.

1584
00:53:53,427 --> 00:53:54,450
And so that way,

1585
00:53:54,450 --> 00:53:57,480
the AI is able to prompt and
respond back to a student

1586
00:53:57,480 --> 00:53:59,220
typically giving them the answer, right?

1587
00:53:59,220 --> 00:54:01,830
And so what's so great
is I spent a lot of time

1588
00:54:01,830 --> 00:54:03,210
going through the InScribe data

1589
00:54:03,210 --> 00:54:04,260
and what we see,

1590
00:54:04,260 --> 00:54:06,810
no matter what course
that we've added this into

1591
00:54:06,810 --> 00:54:08,190
time and time again,

1592
00:54:08,190 --> 00:54:11,790
the number of views far
exceeds the number of posts.

1593
00:54:11,790 --> 00:54:13,290
And that's not always the case

1594
00:54:13,290 --> 00:54:14,607
in the community forum, right?

1595
00:54:14,607 --> 00:54:15,660
And so what we're seeing

1596
00:54:15,660 --> 00:54:17,880
is that InScribed not only allows students

1597
00:54:17,880 --> 00:54:19,560
to be able to get their answer faster,

1598
00:54:19,560 --> 00:54:21,033
but it also reduces
the number of questions

1599
00:54:21,033 --> 00:54:22,680
that students have to ask

1600
00:54:22,680 --> 00:54:24,295
because they're already
seeing that answer there.

1601
00:54:24,295 --> 00:54:26,878
(bright music)

1602
00:54:28,110 --> 00:54:30,660
Mary- You know, what I like
about the InScribe resources?

1603
00:54:30,660 --> 00:54:32,970
'Cause I know like students
could just go Google it, right?

1604
00:54:32,970 --> 00:54:34,107
Like what, how do I cite APA?

1605
00:54:34,107 --> 00:54:35,190
Google it.

1606
00:54:35,190 --> 00:54:36,580
Well, what if they go
to the wrong resource?

1607
00:54:36,580 --> 00:54:37,470
Michael- Yeah.
Mary- Right?

1608
00:54:37,470 --> 00:54:38,460
So like that's what I like

1609
00:54:38,460 --> 00:54:40,920
about that intentional
resource curation that happens,

1610
00:54:40,920 --> 00:54:42,450
and creation, as Michelle said,

1611
00:54:42,450 --> 00:54:44,730
like they're creating
a lot of these things,

1612
00:54:44,730 --> 00:54:47,490
is that you know they're right.

1613
00:54:47,490 --> 00:54:49,740
You know, the students are
getting the right feedback

1614
00:54:49,740 --> 00:54:53,130
and the right pathway to their answer.

1615
00:54:53,130 --> 00:54:54,090
Michael- And I think a lot of times

1616
00:54:54,090 --> 00:54:56,400
when we've introduced this to faculty,

1617
00:54:56,400 --> 00:54:57,630
there's always a little bit of resistance

1618
00:54:57,630 --> 00:54:59,220
'cause it is more front work, right?

1619
00:54:59,220 --> 00:55:01,110
So think through your community forum,

1620
00:55:01,110 --> 00:55:02,700
what are those common
questions that you've had?

1621
00:55:02,700 --> 00:55:04,537
And then they pass those to be,

1622
00:55:04,537 --> 00:55:06,540
"We'll create the FAQ, make it pretty,

1623
00:55:06,540 --> 00:55:08,460
and then put it into
the InScribe for them."

1624
00:55:08,460 --> 00:55:09,690
But they're the course experts, right?

1625
00:55:09,690 --> 00:55:11,340
And so the cool thing is though,

1626
00:55:11,340 --> 00:55:12,420
once they've gone through

1627
00:55:12,420 --> 00:55:13,870
and faculty have taught with InScribe

1628
00:55:13,870 --> 00:55:16,170
for at least a session or so,

1629
00:55:16,170 --> 00:55:17,003
they're on board

1630
00:55:17,003 --> 00:55:20,550
because they have seen the
reduction in the number of emails

1631
00:55:20,550 --> 00:55:21,720
that they're getting from students, right?

1632
00:55:21,720 --> 00:55:23,760
They've seen a vast reduction

1633
00:55:23,760 --> 00:55:25,350
in the number of duplicative posts

1634
00:55:25,350 --> 00:55:28,200
because if you're using
a Canvas discussion forum

1635
00:55:28,200 --> 00:55:29,033
for all of your students,

1636
00:55:29,033 --> 00:55:31,620
they're not gonna sit there
and read every single line

1637
00:55:31,620 --> 00:55:32,460
to try and find an answer.

1638
00:55:32,460 --> 00:55:34,320
They're just gonna put a new
question at the top, right?

1639
00:55:34,320 --> 00:55:36,060
And so in the end,

1640
00:55:36,060 --> 00:55:38,400
it really does decrease
the faculty workload

1641
00:55:38,400 --> 00:55:41,280
of trying to manage those
same questions that again,

1642
00:55:41,280 --> 00:55:43,380
always are gonna come up in their courses.

1643
00:55:43,380 --> 00:55:45,480
But again, I think the biggest benefit

1644
00:55:45,480 --> 00:55:48,420
is obviously to our students
to have that 24/7 support

1645
00:55:48,420 --> 00:55:49,830
both through AI, through peers,

1646
00:55:49,830 --> 00:55:51,240
and the writing mentors in the course.

1647
00:55:51,240 --> 00:55:54,930
Liz- Yeah, I mean I think we did
the kind of like stats on it

1648
00:55:54,930 --> 00:55:56,610
and it reduced the amount of time

1649
00:55:56,610 --> 00:56:00,093
that students waited for an
answer to like five minutes.

1650
00:56:00,987 --> 00:56:02,310
What's cool about InScribe

1651
00:56:02,310 --> 00:56:03,960
is it gives you that data first of all.

1652
00:56:03,960 --> 00:56:07,739
But to see a question that
might have taken 48 hours

1653
00:56:07,739 --> 00:56:08,572
to get a response to,

1654
00:56:08,572 --> 00:56:10,957
that 24 to 48 hours is the typical like,

1655
00:56:10,957 --> 00:56:12,990
"Oh, you'll get an email
from me in this time."

1656
00:56:12,990 --> 00:56:15,300
Students were getting
answers in five minutes.

1657
00:56:15,300 --> 00:56:16,500
That was on the long end.

1658
00:56:16,500 --> 00:56:18,300
On the other hand or on the short side,

1659
00:56:18,300 --> 00:56:19,590
it was like a minute.

1660
00:56:19,590 --> 00:56:21,480
Mary- That's crazy because even in a classroom

1661
00:56:21,480 --> 00:56:22,530
like a large lecture hall,

1662
00:56:22,530 --> 00:56:24,060
you could take far more than five minutes

1663
00:56:24,060 --> 00:56:26,526
to get a question answered if
you need an individual care.

1664
00:56:26,526 --> 00:56:28,920
Michael- Well, and what I always
say is that what we see,

1665
00:56:28,920 --> 00:56:30,630
especially with that AI that is, again,

1666
00:56:30,630 --> 00:56:32,526
as students are starting
to type their question,

1667
00:56:32,526 --> 00:56:36,177
InScribe's AI is going to push
suggestions to them, right?

1668
00:56:36,177 --> 00:56:37,650
And so, so often,

1669
00:56:37,650 --> 00:56:39,480
a student's question is answered

1670
00:56:39,480 --> 00:56:41,190
before they even finish asking it.

1671
00:56:41,190 --> 00:56:42,023
Mary- So cool.

1672
00:56:42,023 --> 00:56:43,544
And like that I think
is a mind-blowing piece.

1673
00:56:43,544 --> 00:56:46,440
And again, when we think
about who our students are,

1674
00:56:46,440 --> 00:56:47,920
and again, I was one of those students

1675
00:56:47,920 --> 00:56:49,890
where I was working three jobs,

1676
00:56:49,890 --> 00:56:53,460
I did not have time to wait 48
hours to get a response back.

1677
00:56:53,460 --> 00:56:54,540
Now hopefully, I was working ahead

1678
00:56:54,540 --> 00:56:55,830
so I wasn't on that time pressure,

1679
00:56:55,830 --> 00:56:57,360
but maybe, maybe not.

1680
00:56:57,360 --> 00:56:59,190
But if not, being able to go in

1681
00:56:59,190 --> 00:57:01,410
and in that moment when I
am doing homework online

1682
00:57:01,410 --> 00:57:03,150
at 4:00 AM and it's due the next day,

1683
00:57:03,150 --> 00:57:04,800
but I have to work both of my jobs

1684
00:57:04,800 --> 00:57:06,630
to be able to get that quick answer,

1685
00:57:06,630 --> 00:57:08,760
that is key to be able to scale

1686
00:57:08,760 --> 00:57:10,205
and still have that really impactful,

1687
00:57:10,205 --> 00:57:12,810
authentic online classroom community.

1688
00:57:12,810 --> 00:57:13,643
Liz- Well, and that kind of support

1689
00:57:13,643 --> 00:57:17,359
is gonna like greatly reduce
your like anxiety as well

1690
00:57:17,359 --> 00:57:18,870
'cause I know for me,

1691
00:57:18,870 --> 00:57:22,080
if I am freaking out about
something that is all consuming

1692
00:57:22,080 --> 00:57:24,630
and I can't get my work
done because I'm so anxious

1693
00:57:24,630 --> 00:57:27,247
about figuring out if I'm
doing it right and then the,

1694
00:57:27,247 --> 00:57:28,620
"Well, should I do it all now

1695
00:57:28,620 --> 00:57:30,090
and then fix it later
when I get the answer?

1696
00:57:30,090 --> 00:57:30,923
Or should I just wait?

1697
00:57:30,923 --> 00:57:32,910
Like how's my time gonna be best spent?"

1698
00:57:32,910 --> 00:57:36,409
And then to skip all of
that spiraling, amazing.

1699
00:57:36,409 --> 00:57:38,880
(bright music)

1700
00:57:38,880 --> 00:57:40,560
Michael- So as we wrap up our conversation today,

1701
00:57:40,560 --> 00:57:42,930
I wanted to talk a little
bit about what was so unique

1702
00:57:42,930 --> 00:57:44,242
about your course redesign process.

1703
00:57:44,242 --> 00:57:45,330
'Cause I think a lot of times

1704
00:57:45,330 --> 00:57:47,070
when we hear the phrase course redesign,

1705
00:57:47,070 --> 00:57:48,240
we think curriculum

1706
00:57:48,240 --> 00:57:50,220
and then we think user experience, right?

1707
00:57:50,220 --> 00:57:51,480
But there's so much more

1708
00:57:51,480 --> 00:57:53,760
that goes into a student's
educational experience,

1709
00:57:53,760 --> 00:57:55,820
especially maybe online, right?

1710
00:57:55,820 --> 00:57:57,870
There are things like
what are they dealing with

1711
00:57:57,870 --> 00:57:58,703
outside of school?

1712
00:57:58,703 --> 00:58:00,480
There are things like do they
know how to get in contact

1713
00:58:00,480 --> 00:58:02,070
with their academic advisor?

1714
00:58:02,070 --> 00:58:04,200
There are all sorts of challenges
that these students face.

1715
00:58:04,200 --> 00:58:06,570
And so when you take a
systems design approach,

1716
00:58:06,570 --> 00:58:09,090
or sometimes it's called a
learning engineering approach,

1717
00:58:09,090 --> 00:58:11,070
you're really looking at
all the spokes in the wheel

1718
00:58:11,070 --> 00:58:13,500
and not just one or two
areas of improvement.

1719
00:58:13,500 --> 00:58:15,840
And so one of the things that
my team really tried to do

1720
00:58:15,840 --> 00:58:16,673
and help out

1721
00:58:16,673 --> 00:58:19,110
was to think about what are
some of these other things

1722
00:58:19,110 --> 00:58:20,820
that exist within the university

1723
00:58:20,820 --> 00:58:22,140
that we can bring into the work

1724
00:58:22,140 --> 00:58:23,640
that we're already doing collaboratively

1725
00:58:23,640 --> 00:58:25,557
to extend the knowledge
about what's going on

1726
00:58:25,557 --> 00:58:27,300
and what's so unique in these courses

1727
00:58:27,300 --> 00:58:28,620
to all those support instances.

1728
00:58:28,620 --> 00:58:32,010
So one of the things that I
think is also really unique

1729
00:58:32,010 --> 00:58:33,000
about ASU online

1730
00:58:33,000 --> 00:58:34,530
is our success coaching center.

1731
00:58:34,530 --> 00:58:35,460
And I know that y'all have had

1732
00:58:35,460 --> 00:58:36,870
some success coaches on recently,

1733
00:58:36,870 --> 00:58:39,600
but they are one-to-one
with students as well

1734
00:58:39,600 --> 00:58:42,060
and just there to provide any
sort of guidance for them.

1735
00:58:42,060 --> 00:58:44,100
And so one of the first things that we did

1736
00:58:44,100 --> 00:58:45,420
when we were going into this redesign

1737
00:58:45,420 --> 00:58:46,770
is we hosted a listening session

1738
00:58:46,770 --> 00:58:48,810
with the senior success coaches.

1739
00:58:48,810 --> 00:58:50,427
They are literally talking to students

1740
00:58:50,427 --> 00:58:51,780
40 hours a week, right?

1741
00:58:51,780 --> 00:58:53,640
So they are getting all
of the good information

1742
00:58:53,640 --> 00:58:54,570
about what's working, what's not working,

1743
00:58:54,570 --> 00:58:56,100
what are the challenges.

1744
00:58:56,100 --> 00:58:57,777
And so we were able to
take that information

1745
00:58:57,777 --> 00:58:59,850
and really digest some of that

1746
00:58:59,850 --> 00:59:01,740
and make that to be
some of those priorities

1747
00:59:01,740 --> 00:59:02,640
for the redesign.

1748
00:59:02,640 --> 00:59:05,880
So it's not just what do the
subject matter experts think?

1749
00:59:05,880 --> 00:59:06,713
And then what do some

1750
00:59:06,713 --> 00:59:08,250
of the instructional design experts think.

1751
00:59:08,250 --> 00:59:10,740
But what do our students
think about their experience?

1752
00:59:10,740 --> 00:59:12,540
Then how do we then frame that

1753
00:59:12,540 --> 00:59:13,890
within the work that we're all doing?

1754
00:59:13,890 --> 00:59:16,470
So I think that was one
really unique aspect

1755
00:59:16,470 --> 00:59:19,770
that the systems design
approach brought into it.

1756
00:59:19,770 --> 00:59:21,090
One of the other things I just mentioned

1757
00:59:21,090 --> 00:59:23,130
with InScribe is data.

1758
00:59:23,130 --> 00:59:25,770
And I have grown to
really love living in data

1759
00:59:25,770 --> 00:59:27,630
and I spent a lot of time
with the Writer's Studio data.

1760
00:59:27,630 --> 00:59:30,120
But one of the other
really powerful pieces

1761
00:59:30,120 --> 00:59:33,240
that allowed us to make
data-informed redesign decisions

1762
00:59:33,240 --> 00:59:35,040
was what we got from InScribe

1763
00:59:35,040 --> 00:59:37,560
'cause again, all of
those student questions,

1764
00:59:37,560 --> 00:59:39,237
I get that in Excel spreadsheet, right?

1765
00:59:39,237 --> 00:59:40,500
And so we went through,

1766
00:59:40,500 --> 00:59:42,330
we coded those, we found the themes,

1767
00:59:42,330 --> 00:59:43,380
and then we took that back

1768
00:59:43,380 --> 00:59:44,940
to those subject matter experts, right?

1769
00:59:44,940 --> 00:59:46,387
To the faculty coordinators and said,

1770
00:59:46,387 --> 00:59:47,940
"Hey, here are what students

1771
00:59:47,940 --> 00:59:49,950
are commonly having questions about,

1772
00:59:49,950 --> 00:59:51,810
common challenges in the course,

1773
00:59:51,810 --> 00:59:54,120
how can we build some of
that into the redesign

1774
00:59:54,120 --> 00:59:56,248
so that way we're
addressing those questions

1775
00:59:56,248 --> 00:59:57,630
through the design

1776
00:59:57,630 --> 00:59:59,100
and hopefully eliminating the need

1777
00:59:59,100 --> 01:00:00,870
to even ask those questions."

1778
01:00:00,870 --> 01:00:03,120
So I think that was
something kind of special

1779
01:00:03,120 --> 01:00:03,953
in the approach.

1780
01:00:03,953 --> 01:00:05,760
And then, Sean, I know
you did a lot of work

1781
01:00:05,760 --> 01:00:06,810
over the past couple of summers

1782
01:00:06,810 --> 01:00:08,940
with designing extra support resources.

1783
01:00:08,940 --> 01:00:09,773
We talked a little bit

1784
01:00:09,773 --> 01:00:12,120
about the student facing
resources for InScribe,

1785
01:00:12,120 --> 01:00:13,800
but last summer you spent a lot of time

1786
01:00:13,800 --> 01:00:16,590
working on faculty resources
and helping them be better too.

1787
01:00:16,590 --> 01:00:18,300
Do you mind touching on that a little bit?

1788
01:00:18,300 --> 01:00:21,180
Sean- Yes, we definitely spent
a lot of time previously

1789
01:00:21,180 --> 01:00:23,070
working on student facing, as you said,

1790
01:00:23,070 --> 01:00:26,670
but it was really nice change
of pace to switch focus

1791
01:00:26,670 --> 01:00:28,794
on our faculty, especially
for new faculty,

1792
01:00:28,794 --> 01:00:31,740
as Michelle and everyone
else has touched on today.

1793
01:00:31,740 --> 01:00:33,060
What we do is a little bit different

1794
01:00:33,060 --> 01:00:34,950
than what others are expecting.

1795
01:00:34,950 --> 01:00:37,411
Maybe when they maybe just start with us,

1796
01:00:37,411 --> 01:00:39,960
much like the students
might come into our course

1797
01:00:39,960 --> 01:00:43,118
and expect one thing and
experience a totally different one.

1798
01:00:43,118 --> 01:00:45,690
We have to help those faculty members

1799
01:00:45,690 --> 01:00:47,940
kind of get up to speed really quickly

1800
01:00:47,940 --> 01:00:49,470
because as you mentioned earlier, Michael,

1801
01:00:49,470 --> 01:00:51,960
these courses move quickly as well

1802
01:00:51,960 --> 01:00:53,700
and they're just kind of thrown in

1803
01:00:53,700 --> 01:00:55,110
and have to hit the ground running.

1804
01:00:55,110 --> 01:00:57,060
So I think it's been
extremely helpful for that.

1805
01:00:57,060 --> 01:00:58,971
And having the data that you've uncovered

1806
01:00:58,971 --> 01:01:01,380
through that process helped us focus

1807
01:01:01,380 --> 01:01:03,420
on where it was needed perhaps the most

1808
01:01:03,420 --> 01:01:04,710
because we could go on and on

1809
01:01:04,710 --> 01:01:07,440
for years creating resources probably.

1810
01:01:07,440 --> 01:01:10,110
Michelle- Yeah, no, they did a fantastic job.

1811
01:01:10,110 --> 01:01:11,940
One of the challenges with scale

1812
01:01:11,940 --> 01:01:16,940
is that we often have to hire
a lot of folks rapidly, right?

1813
01:01:17,359 --> 01:01:19,560
To keep up with enrollment demand.

1814
01:01:19,560 --> 01:01:22,410
What we did this summer
that Sean contributed to

1815
01:01:22,410 --> 01:01:25,636
is really revamp our faculty Canvas site

1816
01:01:25,636 --> 01:01:30,636
and really expand our onboarding
offerings to new faculty,

1817
01:01:30,960 --> 01:01:35,040
again, as a way to continue
to be able to provide

1818
01:01:35,040 --> 01:01:38,280
high quality teaching at scale

1819
01:01:38,280 --> 01:01:41,550
so that when faculty are
coming into the program,

1820
01:01:41,550 --> 01:01:43,290
we can get them quickly up to speed

1821
01:01:43,290 --> 01:01:46,350
and they have the resources
available that they need

1822
01:01:46,350 --> 01:01:49,440
as they get acclimated to our curriculum.

1823
01:01:49,440 --> 01:01:50,280
Which by the way,

1824
01:01:50,280 --> 01:01:51,480
I don't know if we
highlighted this before,

1825
01:01:51,480 --> 01:01:55,080
but we do have a shared
curriculum across our program,

1826
01:01:55,080 --> 01:01:57,990
so faculty are teaching
the same assignments.

1827
01:01:57,990 --> 01:01:59,220
And I think that was one of the things

1828
01:01:59,220 --> 01:02:00,900
that was so important to us

1829
01:02:00,900 --> 01:02:04,020
as we went into this
three-year design process,

1830
01:02:04,020 --> 01:02:06,840
was to make sure that we included faculty

1831
01:02:06,840 --> 01:02:10,290
and faculty's perspectives
and contributions

1832
01:02:10,290 --> 01:02:12,930
into the redesign of the curriculum.

1833
01:02:12,930 --> 01:02:14,490
And Sean has been one of the faculty

1834
01:02:14,490 --> 01:02:18,420
who's been very instrumental
in bringing in that perspective

1835
01:02:18,420 --> 01:02:21,379
as somebody who's really
doing a lot of teaching

1836
01:02:21,379 --> 01:02:26,190
and having a lot of student
encounters every semester.

1837
01:02:26,190 --> 01:02:27,570
Sean- Well, I just wanted to add

1838
01:02:27,570 --> 01:02:29,550
that one of our biggest
goals this last summer

1839
01:02:29,550 --> 01:02:30,960
was to make your job a lot easier

1840
01:02:30,960 --> 01:02:33,930
because as our program grows,
so do your responsibilities.

1841
01:02:33,930 --> 01:02:35,070
So we wanted to, you know,

1842
01:02:35,070 --> 01:02:36,210
just like with InScribe,

1843
01:02:36,210 --> 01:02:37,064
we've heard the student questions,

1844
01:02:37,064 --> 01:02:38,910
we were hoping to do the same for you

1845
01:02:38,910 --> 01:02:40,290
and the faculty questions.

1846
01:02:40,290 --> 01:02:42,150
So hopefully it, it has helped so far.

1847
01:02:42,150 --> 01:02:43,710
Michelle- Yes, I appreciate that.

1848
01:02:43,710 --> 01:02:45,210
Thank you so much.

1849
01:02:45,210 --> 01:02:46,110
Michael- Well, and that's why I think

1850
01:02:46,110 --> 01:02:49,710
this whole holistic redesign
process has been so unique

1851
01:02:49,710 --> 01:02:50,543
and so special

1852
01:02:50,543 --> 01:02:53,186
and everybody from the program lead

1853
01:02:53,186 --> 01:02:56,010
to the faculty coordinators
to individual faculty members

1854
01:02:56,010 --> 01:02:56,970
who are writing mentors,

1855
01:02:56,970 --> 01:02:58,440
to instructional designers,

1856
01:02:58,440 --> 01:02:59,790
to the EdPlus marketing team,

1857
01:02:59,790 --> 01:03:02,040
to our success coaches, to our data teams,

1858
01:03:02,040 --> 01:03:04,514
there have been so many
individual contributions

1859
01:03:04,514 --> 01:03:06,766
into this project that I think, again,

1860
01:03:06,766 --> 01:03:08,520
it has made it really special

1861
01:03:08,520 --> 01:03:09,867
and really successful for our students.

1862
01:03:09,867 --> 01:03:12,180
And so I'm so grateful to have been able

1863
01:03:12,180 --> 01:03:13,110
to have been a part of it

1864
01:03:13,110 --> 01:03:14,705
and I'm so grateful that
y'all took some time

1865
01:03:14,705 --> 01:03:16,710
to come and share the story today.

1866
01:03:16,710 --> 01:03:18,150
Before we head out, any last words,

1867
01:03:18,150 --> 01:03:19,890
anything anyone wanted to add?

1868
01:03:19,890 --> 01:03:21,480
Michelle- I just wanna, again, highlight

1869
01:03:21,480 --> 01:03:24,690
how important the data has been to us.

1870
01:03:24,690 --> 01:03:26,280
We really, prior to this,

1871
01:03:26,280 --> 01:03:29,100
did not have regular infusions of data

1872
01:03:29,100 --> 01:03:32,220
into kind of our decision-making process.

1873
01:03:32,220 --> 01:03:34,407
Our resources are thin in our program.

1874
01:03:34,407 --> 01:03:36,210
And so having Michael

1875
01:03:36,210 --> 01:03:39,972
be able to provide ongoing data to us

1876
01:03:39,972 --> 01:03:42,960
so that we can make
these informed decisions

1877
01:03:42,960 --> 01:03:45,090
has been a very heavy load,

1878
01:03:45,090 --> 01:03:48,690
but also invaluable for us as
we move through this process.

1879
01:03:48,690 --> 01:03:50,610
And hopefully, as we continue

1880
01:03:50,610 --> 01:03:51,960
to move through the process too.

1881
01:03:51,960 --> 01:03:52,793
Zach- I would say also just that

1882
01:03:52,793 --> 01:03:54,971
because writing is a recursive process,

1883
01:03:54,971 --> 01:03:57,360
our revision is always
in progress as well.

1884
01:03:57,360 --> 01:04:00,330
We are always going to be
continuing to make changes

1885
01:04:00,330 --> 01:04:02,610
to use the data to work
with our collaborators

1886
01:04:02,610 --> 01:04:04,114
to continue to improve
the student experience

1887
01:04:04,114 --> 01:04:05,700
in the Writer's Studio.

1888
01:04:05,700 --> 01:04:08,700
So our revamp will continue endlessly.

1889
01:04:08,700 --> 01:04:10,950
Sean- And I think as
challenging as it might feel

1890
01:04:10,950 --> 01:04:12,030
in the middle of the semester,

1891
01:04:12,030 --> 01:04:13,383
especially in B sessions,

1892
01:04:14,490 --> 01:04:16,470
it's so rewarding to
get those student emails

1893
01:04:16,470 --> 01:04:19,140
sometimes one or two or
three years later that say,

1894
01:04:19,140 --> 01:04:20,910
"This has changed my life."

1895
01:04:20,910 --> 01:04:21,870
It's been, you know,

1896
01:04:21,870 --> 01:04:23,460
I still think about
that course all the time

1897
01:04:23,460 --> 01:04:24,900
because how often do you hear that

1898
01:04:24,900 --> 01:04:26,700
from a first-year composition course?

1899
01:04:26,700 --> 01:04:28,530
It's really exciting to see those.

1900
01:04:28,530 --> 01:04:30,000
Michael- Well, and that's been
probably my favorite part

1901
01:04:30,000 --> 01:04:30,833
of working with the data

1902
01:04:30,833 --> 01:04:32,820
is reading some of those
qualitative surveys

1903
01:04:32,820 --> 01:04:33,960
from the students writing about

1904
01:04:33,960 --> 01:04:36,060
what they have really
enjoyed about the course.

1905
01:04:36,060 --> 01:04:37,260
And yeah, maybe it was surprising

1906
01:04:37,260 --> 01:04:38,280
and maybe it was challenging,

1907
01:04:38,280 --> 01:04:40,020
but what they're taking
away from it, right?

1908
01:04:40,020 --> 01:04:40,853
And what they gained

1909
01:04:40,853 --> 01:04:43,350
and how that's gonna be
able to support them,

1910
01:04:43,350 --> 01:04:45,000
like we said in their academic work,

1911
01:04:45,000 --> 01:04:47,160
their personal professional lives as well.

1912
01:04:47,160 --> 01:04:48,780
Michael- Awesome, well, thank you again so much

1913
01:04:48,780 --> 01:04:50,130
for taking some time and being here.

1914
01:04:50,130 --> 01:04:51,060
Sean, from Remote,

1915
01:04:51,060 --> 01:04:54,030
we appreciate you zooming in
and spending some time with us.

1916
01:04:54,030 --> 01:04:55,050
Zach, John, Michelle,

1917
01:04:55,050 --> 01:04:57,030
thank you so much for
joining us in the studio.

1918
01:04:57,030 --> 01:04:58,740
Any last words or
anything you'd wanna plug

1919
01:04:58,740 --> 01:04:59,573
other than the things that we're gonna add

1920
01:04:59,573 --> 01:05:01,154
into our show notes?

1921
01:05:01,154 --> 01:05:02,430
Sean- Well, if anyone's interested,

1922
01:05:02,430 --> 01:05:04,200
a colleague within the
Writer's Studio and I

1923
01:05:04,200 --> 01:05:05,033
and her daughter,

1924
01:05:05,033 --> 01:05:07,020
we created the "Health,
It's Personal" podcast

1925
01:05:07,020 --> 01:05:09,480
where we speak with
different professionals

1926
01:05:09,480 --> 01:05:10,977
such as doctors, psychologists,

1927
01:05:10,977 --> 01:05:12,900
and people who have personal experiences,

1928
01:05:12,900 --> 01:05:15,740
people who've worked for
the EPA and stuff like that.

1929
01:05:15,740 --> 01:05:18,240
It's been really cool to kind
sit down and talk to them

1930
01:05:18,240 --> 01:05:21,090
about things that teenagers, young adults,

1931
01:05:21,090 --> 01:05:24,090
and maybe new parents
might want to know about,

1932
01:05:24,090 --> 01:05:26,025
you know, informing their
children or themselves

1933
01:05:26,025 --> 01:05:28,410
about health-related topics.

1934
01:05:28,410 --> 01:05:30,150
But we kind of really have fun with that.

1935
01:05:30,150 --> 01:05:31,680
And we go broad ranging

1936
01:05:31,680 --> 01:05:33,840
with environmental health, for example,

1937
01:05:33,840 --> 01:05:36,810
or lots of different tough
topics that cover everything.

1938
01:05:36,810 --> 01:05:38,310
Michael- And I got to be the very first guest

1939
01:05:38,310 --> 01:05:40,020
and talk about my love
for Christina Aguilera,

1940
01:05:40,020 --> 01:05:42,540
so it doesn't get much better than that.

1941
01:05:42,540 --> 01:05:43,770
Sean- So if you wanna hear more Michael's

1942
01:05:43,770 --> 01:05:44,853
awesome radio voice.

1943
01:05:45,870 --> 01:05:46,860
Michelle- Well, this was a lot of fun.

1944
01:05:46,860 --> 01:05:48,060
Thanks again for having us.

1945
01:05:48,060 --> 01:05:49,470
I think if anyone's interested

1946
01:05:49,470 --> 01:05:51,390
in learning more about grading contracts,

1947
01:05:51,390 --> 01:05:54,300
there's a great issue that
Zach and I have a piece in

1948
01:05:54,300 --> 01:05:57,030
of the Journal of Writing
Assessment from 2020.

1949
01:05:57,030 --> 01:05:59,430
It was a special issue
on grading contracts,

1950
01:05:59,430 --> 01:06:01,590
which you should be able
to find in the show notes.

1951
01:06:01,590 --> 01:06:02,464
Michael- Perfect, thanks everybody.

1952
01:06:02,464 --> 01:06:05,047
(bright music)

1953
01:06:07,050 --> 01:06:09,510
Ricardo- Okay, well that was
such a great interview

1954
01:06:09,510 --> 01:06:11,310
and I wanna again, applaud you, Michael,

1955
01:06:11,310 --> 01:06:13,328
for such a great job in that interview.

1956
01:06:13,328 --> 01:06:14,850
Mary- Phenomenal.
Michael- Thank you all.

1957
01:06:14,850 --> 01:06:16,320
Thank you for having me and for hosting me

1958
01:06:16,320 --> 01:06:18,600
and for letting me talk
to some of my mentors

1959
01:06:18,600 --> 01:06:20,730
and people that have been
really impactful in my own life.

1960
01:06:20,730 --> 01:06:21,780
Ricardo- Hey, anytime.

1961
01:06:21,780 --> 01:06:23,670
Liz- It was great to just
be a fly on the wall

1962
01:06:23,670 --> 01:06:24,990
for that conversation.

1963
01:06:24,990 --> 01:06:26,220
Mary- Yeah, so much.

1964
01:06:26,220 --> 01:06:27,210
So much came up.

1965
01:06:27,210 --> 01:06:29,280
I love that they were so open

1966
01:06:29,280 --> 01:06:31,920
to having the AI question answered.

1967
01:06:31,920 --> 01:06:33,750
Like they didn't prepare for that,

1968
01:06:33,750 --> 01:06:37,470
so that was really quite lovely
to hear them off the cuff.

1969
01:06:37,470 --> 01:06:38,578
I mean, beautiful.

1970
01:06:38,578 --> 01:06:42,060
The future is very bright
in the Writing Studio,

1971
01:06:42,060 --> 01:06:43,815
Ricardo- And the future is very
bright for season five

1972
01:06:43,815 --> 01:06:45,240
of Course Stories.

1973
01:06:45,240 --> 01:06:48,090
And we look forward to
providing new listeners

1974
01:06:48,090 --> 01:06:51,120
with more interesting conversations.

1975
01:06:51,120 --> 01:06:53,730
And if people wanna have
an interesting conversation

1976
01:06:53,730 --> 01:06:54,696
with us themselves,

1977
01:06:54,696 --> 01:06:56,190
how can they do that, Mary?

1978
01:06:56,190 --> 01:06:58,920
Mary- Well, email us coursestories@asu.edu.

1979
01:06:58,920 --> 01:07:01,650
We are waiting with bated
breath for y'all email.

1980
01:07:01,650 --> 01:07:03,030
Ricardo- Mm-hmm, oh my dear.

1981
01:07:03,030 --> 01:07:03,900
I can't.
Mary- My luck.

1982
01:07:03,900 --> 01:07:06,903
Ricardo- Oh, I'm having palpitations
waiting on these emails.

1983
01:07:07,782 --> 01:07:08,703
Liz- Thanks.

1984
01:07:09,900 --> 01:07:10,733
Ricardo- Bye.

1985
01:07:10,733 --> 01:07:13,230
(bright music)

1986
01:07:13,230 --> 01:07:14,400
Ricardo- Course Stories is available

1987
01:07:14,400 --> 01:07:15,960
wherever you listen to podcasts.

1988
01:07:15,960 --> 01:07:18,630
You can reach us at coursestories@asu.edu.

1989
01:07:18,630 --> 01:07:19,710
Course stories is produced

1990
01:07:19,710 --> 01:07:22,740
by the Instructional Design
at New Media Team at EdPlus

1991
01:07:22,740 --> 01:07:24,420
at Arizona State University.

1992
01:07:24,420 --> 01:07:26,520
If you're an instructor at ASU online,

1993
01:07:26,520 --> 01:07:27,630
tell us your course story

1994
01:07:27,630 --> 01:07:29,880
and we may feature it in a future episode.

1995
01:07:29,880 --> 01:07:30,713
Thanks, listening.

1996
01:07:30,713 --> 01:07:33,139
(bright music)