(soft upbeat music)
Mary Loder- Welcome to Course Stories
produced by the Instructional Design and New Media team
of EdPlus at Arizona State University.
In this podcast, we tell an array of course design stories
alongside other ASU online designers and faculty.
On today's course story.
Aubrey Holland- Hey there, I'm Aubrey, a multimedia developer
under the New Media team at EdPlus,
and I actually work with Ricardo.
Liz Lee- Hi, and I'm Liz.
I'm a senior instructional designer
and producer for our podcast,
and I also work with Aubrey and Ricardo and Mary.
Today's a little bit of a special episode.
I was gonna start off with,
sorry, that my voice is absolutely hoarse.
I had a long weekend. (laughs)
Aubrey- Very fun long weekend though.
Liz- Yes. Aubrey- Congratulations by the way.
Liz- Thank you, yeah, my voice is completely gone
because I got married over the weekend.
So it was a long kind of two days of celebration
and lots of family, lots of food, very good cake.
But now my voice has just absolutely left me.
So sorry if I'm a little scratchy today.
But we have a really kind of fun
different special episode today.
I feel like a lot of the episodes this season,
each one of them has been very different
and unique and special all in very different ways,
like we had the AI guy come in and talk about things,
which that was fascinating.
And then we've even had our very first live episode at OLC.
And so I guess to keep with that,
we have an even more differenter, (laughs)
if that's a word, episode today.
First of all, it's kind of a bit of a takeover episode
for us, isn't it?
Aubrey- That it is.
Liz- So we've taken over today from Mary and Ricardo as hosts,
very exciting.
And we've got a different kind of episode for you
in that normally we have an ID and faculty
come in and sit down for an interview,
but we actually have a couple extra special voices
joining us today.
Aubrey- Yeah, so we actually had the opportunity
to discuss with Granville Carroll
about the course they designed and how they designed it
with community building in mind.
We also got to hear from a student in his course, Tufan,
who joined ASU, thanks to the Uber program.
And we also got to speak with a former success coach
turned ID, Katrina.
And finally also Nicolette
who works at the Success Center currently.
Liz, you were a coach before coming to IDNM right?
Liz- I was, yeah, it was a really fun special experience.
Do you know much about the Coaching Center?
I don't think we ever really talk about it much.
Aubrey- I know.
I am actually pretty unfamiliar with it
as a transfer student coming to ASU
back when I did go to college here.
Looking back and like learning about
the success coach role now,
I definitely wish I would have connected
with a success coach, just hearing about how much they help,
especially with showing them the way
with everything and all college,
and what to do, what not to do.
Yeah, they sound amazing.
Liz- Yeah, it was a really cool experience
being a success coach.
And actually I joined the Success Coaching Center
right as it was opening.
So there was a really kind of fun kinda cowboy era
where we didn't exactly know
what success coaching was going to turn into.
We just had this vision.
I say we like I was a part of like making it a thing.
But the folks there had this vision
of just having somebody who was like your person,
somebody that you could call, I'd like to say day or night,
but they do close at some point. (laughs)
But for the most part you can call anytime during the week.
They're really flexible.
And it's just your person.
It's somebody that like
no matter what kind of challenges you're facing,
no matter what sort of issue might be going on,
you have someone who can help you through that
and kind of help you get through those
like really complicated channels that come up in college.
You have a question about doing something,
who do you talk to first?
And there's always this like weird order of operations
whenever you're making a change at college
where you can't just do the thing.
You also need to talk to this person.
From a student's perspective,
it seems very confusing and like confounding.
So it was nice to have somebody
to like walk you through all the steps
and get you to who you need to talk to the first time
versus like running around trying to figure that all out.
But they're also there for your like happy moments too.
And I think like our conversation today really highlights
that great relationship that gets built
between success coaches and their students.
It's really a relationship that you build
and something that a lot of the success coaches
carry on with their students even after graduation.
Aubrey- Yeah, that's awesome.
I'm really looking forward to hearing more
about the Success Coach Program
and even the role that they played
with the students that we were able to speak to, Tufan.
It sounds like they've had quite an incredible impact
on his time here at ASU.
So let's get started.
(soft music)
Aubrey- Hi, welcome everybody.
I'm Aubrey.
I'm a multimedia developer.
Katrina Volmer- I'm Katrina Vollmer.
I'm an instructional design associate
at the Instructional Design and New Media team at EdPlus.
Granville Carroll- I'm Granville Carroll, assistant teaching professor
for the online BFA Digital Photography program.
Liz- Hi, I'm Liz Lee.
I'm a senior instructional designer
and newly producer for the podcast.
Nicolette Miller- Hi, I'm Nicolette Miller.
I'm a senior director of Online Student Success Initiatives
here at ASU at EdPlus.
Tufan Comert- Hi, this is Tufan Comert.
I'm a former student at Arizona State University.
I was in the 2023 class.
And I'm glad to be here.
Liz- Yeah, so it's exciting to have you guys join us today.
So why don't we just start with Katrina.
How did this all come together?
How did you guys meet?
Katrina- Yeah, so prior to this role,
I was an ASU online success coach,
and I had the amazing privilege
of being Tufan's assigned success coach
and was able to work with him for a good year.
And I'll say a little background,
any success coach will tell you
it's a very rewarding position to be in.
You get to work every single day with students
and work with them through some of their really low moments
where they're struggling and navigating through
any items, personal, academic,
and you get to also be their cheerleader
when -- and celebrate their successes.
So I was really excited to hear
that Tufan actually was in three of Granville's courses,
and I thought to myself, wow,
that must be a pretty incredible instructor.
So Granville, tell me about your course Art 394.
Granville- Yes, so Art 394, it's a special topics designation.
So specifically the course that I designed
is Identity and Representation in Photography.
So it's a class that deals
with topics of who are you, right?
Why do you photograph the things you photograph?
How do you see the world?
And also thinking about representation
in terms of like social identity factors
or markers that affect us in one way or another.
And then also thinking about how those things
sort of come into play in terms of
taking a picture and representing something
to the world in this medium.
So when I was asked to design the class,
Betsy, my boss, I guess you could say, she was like,
"You don't have to do it like the status quo, right?
"Like you just talk about like sexuality and gender issues
"and race and all these other topics.
"Like make it your own."
So she really gave me the freedom to create a class
that was really based on the research that I've done
in my own personal artistic practice
and also things that I'm involved with
and also care deeply about.
So it was really, really a great, great time,
and the first time I've ever designed a class myself, so.
Katrina- I would love to hear more about that,
like your experiences, how you brought a lot of that
into the design of this course.
Granville- Yeah, so when I was designing the class,
I thought to myself, how do I break this down
into six or seven different modules, right?
Something that's consistent
and has a nice sense of fluidity to it.
So I first thought about what are the things
that really influenced me as a student
when I was learning photography?
I mean that was learning the difference
between like an abstract image
and also something that's a little bit more
like truthful, right?
And I, for you all listening, doing the air quotes,
'cause truth in photography
is a very deep philosophical debate in conversation,
because, well, it's very deep,
so I won't go into right now. (laughs)
But just thinking about representing something
like if I take a picture of a water bottle,
it's a water bottle, right?
But also like if I get really, really close up
to that water bottle,
I can abstract it and turn it into something else.
So I wanted to think about how can I help my students
activate their own imaginations
by introducing them to these ideas,
and then bringing some of the topics of race into it,
because that is a part of my artistic practice
is considering how the world looks at you
based on your outside appearance.
And for me as a black man,
I have my own things to deal with, right?
But that is different for everybody
in how they represent themselves.
So I wanted to sort of equip them
with ways of thinking about these things
even if it doesn't necessarily relate to them
in that specific manner.
And then going from there, thinking about portraiture.
So getting a little bit more traditional.
But considering the fact that, as photographers,
we have a lot of power in how we represent
either ourselves as self-portrait artists
or as taking pictures of other people.
So equipping them with the knowledge to say like,
you have to be responsible
'cause if you take a picture of somebody
and it goes out into the world and it has this life
that is now sort of defaming them
or it has this negative energy around it,
that's something
you just don't really wanna find yourself in
unless you're like ready to deal with that, right?
And then considering family origin stories
and thinking about where you come from
and how that comes into play.
And then also dealing with landscape.
So physicality, how are you located in the space
and how does that affect your mind?
So all these things that I'm always thinking about.
Katrina- Like it feels like I would imagine students have
a very powerful experience going through that
and would imagine that there's a lot of need
to be vulnerable.
Can you speak to that?
Like the student experience with that?
Granville- Yeah, so I've taught the class two times now.
So it's a fairly new course.
And the first time I taught the class,
I found that students were super, super vulnerable.
Like they were opening themselves up
in ways that I was like, whoa, like I'm not,
I'm not ready for this.
This is sort of like a,
like I'm not a psychologist, I'm not a therapist.
But they felt safe to express themselves
within this space that I've created in the class,
specifically in our discussions.
And I was just really, really thankful
that students felt the need
and also felt safe to express themselves in this manner
to talk about these things,
'cause a lot of these topics are difficult to deal with.
They're heavy.
They require a lot of contemplation and self-reflection.
And oftentimes we're not really taught
how to do that in our society from my perspective.
So, yeah, it was really, really amazing
to see how they just took the content,
ran with it, applied it to their own lives,
and then were willing to share those stories
with the rest of the class
and even myself as the professor, so.
Katrina- Yeah, yeah, I think you're right.
It definitely ties into that theme of
creating a safe space for the students
and creating that community.
And I feel like these are all ingredients to help do that.
Granville- Yeah.
Katrina- I did also notice in your course
when I was looking around there
that there was something that really excited me
and that was that you had students
journal for the duration of the session.
And I thought that was so unique.
I feel like I don't really see that often in courses.
Can you tell me more about that?
Granville- Yeah, absolutely.
So the journaling aspect, again, I can't take full credit,
because that's something that Ashley Sakowski, my colleague,
developed for one of her classes.
And as we were all discussing like, okay,
how do I create this course?
She mentioned like maybe you should introduce this.
So I was like I think that's a really great way
to allow students to sort of soak up all the materials,
'cause it's a lot, right?
These online courses are accelerated.
They have to process so much information so quickly.
So if they can have a place
where they can jot down ideas, right?
Think about music or movies or TV shows, books,
whatever is really inspirational to them
that ties in with the course topics might be a way
that they can synthesize the information, right?
Also, as a artist, it's really, really important
that you keep a journal, right?
I have several journals that I will write an idea in
or if there's a song that's like super inspirational
or leads into research that I'm doing or thinking about,
jotting that down, right?
If I just have a string of thoughts
that might make no sense to anyone else reading it,
but it makes sense to me, I wanna write that down.
And all of this source material
is really, really important for creating projects, right,
and keeping that creative momentum flowing.
So introducing students to that process in a class,
again, one way to synthesize
all the information they're learning about,
but then also to help them sort of actually create
a artistic practice that's sustainable.
Katrina- Right.
And I'm just kind of briefly thinking about
my own experiences of journaling,
which I haven't done in a really long time.
But the journals I used to keep,
sometimes when I go back and read them,
I think, wow, like that was who I was at that time
and how interesting of where I am now.
And it really is such a neat process.
And wonderful that you're putting that in your course.
I don't know, like I said,
it's not something that I have seen very often.
I just think it's such a wonderful opportunity
that you're providing them.
It's like it could be something optional,
but to sort of push them
or to make this part of their practice,
it's like they're gaining from it
maybe they don't realize it at the time until later.
Granville- Yeah, 'cause I've had some students who are like,
"Oh this is so much work."
And I'm like it literally shouldn't take you
more than five to 10 minutes a day to do this.
Like just think about a song
and like put the lyrics in there,
take an image and put that into your digital journal.
But you touched upon something
that I don't think I've really mentioned,
but like self-reflection, right?
A journal is about that.
So this is an opportunity for them
to sort of create their own timeline
where they can look back at it and say, wow,
like I've started here,
but now I've evolved to this point, right?
So, yeah, there's a lot of beautiful things about it.
Katrina- Definitely.
I really wanna hear also about how you provide
an approach for feedback in the course, the critiques.
And, yeah, tell me a little bit about your approach
to the students obtaining feedback
from you and from their peers,
and how it is that you are able
to not only provide this ongoing feedback for them but
what's your process like?
Granville- First and foremost,
when students are critiquing each other,
I want them to understand like,
don't just be super nice, right?
Like it's easy to wanna say like,
oh this is beautiful, this is great, like you're amazing.
And those things should be said,
but those aren't always the things
that allow us to grow as artists, right?
We need to have a little bit more of a push.
So you can say like, oh this is really amazing,
but have you thought about doing it
differently in this manner, right?
The classes I teach are really large,
so it's almost impossible to be able to give
every single student a critique for every assignment.
So what I do is create a group critique.
So I'll have maybe 10 or so students
per assignment that I'll critique,
either live or recorded,
depending on schedule and interest in the class.
And I will speak about the work myself.
And so one way it's a way for them
to have some sort of interaction with me,
again, whether it's live or recorded,
but then also sort of doing it by example, right?
So if I can show them,
like you can talk about something like really positively,
but you can also give some constructive criticism
that hopefully they'll be like, okay, yeah.
So the next time I do a critique,
I'll still be like respectful and nice,
but I'll be able to provide them with feedback
that's gonna help them grow.
So, yeah, so those students,
they use a program called CritViz
to critique anywhere between like
three to five students per assignment.
So they will just give written responses
and stuff like that to the students,
and then we also provide the Zoom feedback as well.
And I always, always, always encourage my students
to please reach out for Zoom independent sessions, right?
If you want additional feedback
or if I can't get to your assignment for that week,
like meet with me
and I'll be happy to provide you a critique.
Most students don't. (laughs)
Katrina- Okay.
Granville- Because I think, one, they feel like a burden,
or, two, like maybe their schedule's just busy
or a number of reasons, right?
Katrina- It can be a scary thing I think
receiving feedback. Granville- Yeah.
Katrina- But that you're providing
that opportunity is massive, I think.
Granville- Yeah.
Katrina- And live opportunity for it.
That's unique too.
I feel like that's a pretty unique thing
for an online course.
Granville- Yeah. Katrina- To provide
the opportunity for that.
But what a way to build community.
I mean you're giving numerous opportunities
for them to hear from one another,
connect with one another, share their projects,
and just feel like that's just how you do it.
Have you found a formula for feedback
that you feel is a good sort of middle ground of,
oh great job on this, let's think about this.
What's your formula or do you have one?
Granville- I don't think I really have a formula
that I've like consciously thought about,
but I've definitely,
I think it just comes sort of naturally, right?
And I mean I have a BFA in photography.
I have my master's in photography.
So I've been through several critiques,
some that were really positive and some that I was like,
I'm going to get kicked outta school because they hate me
and they hate my work. (laughs)
So I've had the extreme highs and the extreme lows.
And so I think just from my own personal experience,
understanding what's been helpful for me, right?
Having professors who have challenged me, pushed me,
but also clearly showed belief in what I was doing.
So I try to reciprocate that for my students as well.
You're doing some really awesome things,
but let's take it up a notch, right?
Because I see the potential in you,
I see the possibilities, and you're learning.
So you may not see that yet,
but let me help you try to get there.
Katrina- Yeah, right.
In fact, that reminds me of something
that Tufan had mentioned to me was that he was working
on this particular project within your course
and going through it
and there was a conversation he had with you.
Basically he felt challenged to take it up a notch.
And he realized later, correct me if I'm wrong,
realized later that, wow,
he not only sort of was teaching me these techniques,
but he really dug in with like the philosophy as well.
I thought, whoa.
Yeah, that's pretty impressive.
Well, I mean these are all great ways to build community.
If you were giving guidance to a new instructor
on building community,
what do you think some of your top advice would be?
Granville- Oh, that's a great question.
Yeah, one of the top things I would say
is to build community,
you have to lean into the experience without expectation,
to see the student as a sovereign being
and not just as a number in the classroom
or to see them as a, quote unquote, "student," right?
My philosophy is first and foremost they're humans, right?
Like these are people that are here to learn something
and it's my duty to guide them.
So to do that effectively
and to build community effectively,
you have to build that trust.
And I think by breaking down
sort of that hierarchal sense, right, of academia,
and I'm the professor, you're the student type of thing,
allows that trust to be built in a more genuine way,
and therefore makes it easier to build community.
So that would be my advice.
Katrina- That's amazing.
Katrina- So, Tufan, I was curious,
what was it about Granville's courses
that stood out for you?
What was it that made you keep coming back
to Granville's courses?
Tufan- So I have taken a lot of art classes
and Carroll was one of my favorites.
His knowledge, his willingness to share
his knowledge with the students.
He's caring.
He's a wonderful teacher and a wonderful person.
That's why I kept bothering him
if I could take more and more classes.
And he was nice enough to let me enroll
even though his class was full.
And I'm just so glad that I had a chance
to be in three of his classes.
I wish there was more.
Katrina- Awesome.
Was there a particular project
or something that you worked on in his course
that really made an impact on you as a student?
Tufan- Yes, because he kept challenging me.
He kept making my projects harder,
sometimes miserable, but in a good way.
Because every time he challenged me,
I pushed myself to do better and I learned.
And when it did not work out,
he was there for me to show what works, what doesn't.
And if I improved during my classes,
definitely Carroll was one of the reasons why.
Katrina- Wonderful.
It's funny 'cause I remember in one of our discussions
when I was your success coach,
you were being interviewed from the news
because of some situations going on with Uber.
Tufan was an Uber driver and received tuition at ASU
because of that partnership.
And I remember you said,
I'll interview you as long as I can take your photos
for a photography class that I'm in.
And I thought that that was such dedication
as a student. (laughs)
Tufan- Yes, yes, I remember that back then Uber, Hertz, and Tesla
had recently set up an agreement
that Hertz was gonna buy a lot of Teslas
and they were gonna be available for the Uber drivers.
And a local TV channel were trying to cover it
for their evening news.
And I've seen this anchor lady and the camera person
going and trying to interview all the Uber drivers
in the airport's waiting lot,
but no one was willing to talk to them.
For the next day, I had an assignment
and I had to take people's portraits
of the people that I don't know, the strangers.
And she came to me and asked.
I said, sure, I'll talk, why not?
But will you let me take a photograph of yours
because I still need to do my homework?
So they asked me questions.
I said, sure, this is wonderful,
it's environment-friendly.
I'll give it a try, why not?
If it works out, if it's for my advantage,
I'll keep renting it, which I ended up renting Teslas,
then she let me take a couple of her photographs
and it worked out for both.
Katrina- Awesome.
(soft music)
Aubrey- Quick little side interjection here.
This student mentioned that they were at ASU
through the Uber program.
Liz, do you know what exactly that is?
Liz- Yeah, so having been a success coach,
we worked with students in a lot of different capacities,
particularly would work with students
who were coming from certain scholarship programs.
So have you heard of the Starbucks program?
I feel like ASU talks about it all the time.
Aubrey- Oh, yeah, definitely seen a lot about that.
Liz- Yeah, we're very proud of our relationship with Starbucks,
and a part of that relationship with Starbucks,
and there's also like it's grown a lot.
So we have Starbucks, we also have Uber,
we work with the Air Force.
So we have a lot of these different
kinda scholarship programs
that if you're with one of these programs or companies
and you meet certain criteria, you get to go to ASU.
And with that also comes the benefit of a success coach
who's specifically kind of trained in
and knows about your specific program.
So for the Uber program,
again, if you just meet certain criteria
and you drive with Uber, you get to go to ASU.
Like ASU is really good about finding ways
to get students into college who,
and working with them around their needs.
And this is just one of those examples.
Aubrey- That sounds like such a great opportunity,
especially if you're still one of those students
that definitely just wants to also like stay working
while you're doing your studies.
I mean you got a lot going on, you might have a family,
you might have other things you need to pay for,
whatever that may be.
So a program like this definitely would help out
those specific students.
Liz- Yeah, absolutely.
And what's so cool about these programs
is that they work really hard
to work closely with the success coaches
to ensure that the students
are not just kinda thrown to the wolves
when it comes to attending an online college while working.
Like you mentioned,
there's so much that you need to think about
in terms of balancing work, school, and life
that having somebody who is there for you
to help you manage all of that is so important.
And it's really cool that Uber is so dedicated
to working with their students and with ASU
to provide great opportunities
and promote their success in a lot of different ways.
Aubrey- Oh 100%.
Well, let's hear a little bit more about it.
(soft music)
Liz- How did the experience and the relationship-building,
it seems like you have a pretty solid relationship
with Carroll here.
How did that relationship help you within your success,
both within the classes that you took
and with your overall program?
Tufan- Well, the way he designed his classes is very simple.
It's already out there.
If you go through the syllabus carefully,
there is all the information needed for students.
And what made my relationship with him very easy
is his responsiveness.
Every time I had a question, I would email him,
and he would get back to me as soon as possible
with all the answers that I have,
or if needed, he was always, always there for me.
So once you have a professor
willing to work with you this way,
you do your best.
I tried.
Liz- So that's awesome.
It sounds like there was the relationship
by him being there, by him being responsive,
by creating a really positive community within your course
that that actively made you want to be,
made you more motivated, right?
Tufan- Definitely, absolutely, absolutely.
And most days when I completed and returned my work,
I couldn't wait until I get critiques from him.
And at first if I couldn't make it, if it was a recording,
I would sort of fast forward and find my space first,
listen to what he got to say about my project and go back,
restart it and listen the entire class's critiques.
Katrina- The critique is a good point 'cause one thing I noticed
when I was looking at Granville's course was that
he provided some unique opportunities
for students to receive ongoing
what looked to me like to be very effective feedback,
which I think can be very difficult to do
in an online course.
So, Tufan, what was your experience with that process?
Tufan- I believe that actually negative critiques
let me improve myself better,
because if I took a photograph and if I edit it,
it looks nice to me, it looks good to me.
But if one comes and says,
"Hey, it could be better this way if you change this."
It can be anything, it can be an angle,
it can be the exposure, it can be anything you can imagine.
And Carroll has eyes like a radar.
If there's a line that's not going straight,
if something is not working out so well,
and he's skilled to let the students know
in a way that do not demotivate them,
starting with the good stuff, encouraging them,
but at the same time teaching them
to be a better photographer.
Katrina- That's wonderful.
It's like I said, I think that that's a really hard thing,
'cause I feel like in discussions
or however an instructor chooses to provide that feedback,
it does take a lot of guidance and time
to sort of perfect that with students.
Like I think sometimes it can be easy for students
to just say, I agree or I disagree.
But like providing detailed feedback,
I feel like it's a skill that the instructor has.
I feel like to effectively communicate
how to do that properly,
to get the students moving in a forward direction.
Tufan- This actually I agree with you, Katrina.
It's a very, very hard thing to do.
And it's a very hard skill to gain
to let people know what's not working out
at the same time encouraging them.
I used to manage restaurants
and I've had so many bad experiences at first
when I was talking to my staff
and asking them to do things differently,
some of whom I upset them,
or they did not want to work as much as they did.
But this is a wonderful skill to have.
I wish I could learn it from him while I was there.
Granville- What was the most impactful thing that you got
from any of the courses that you took from me?
Tufan- Wow, you taught me a lot.
I just need to pick a couple of the good ones.
You are the one to teach me
photograph is not what you photograph.
It's how you present it.
Especially at your last course,
I learned what you meant by abstraction work.
You could be taking a photograph of a car,
but make it look like a monster or anything you can imagine.
And also I will never forget your quotes
in one of your live meetings that you said,
"I want you to learn all the rules,
"then I want you to break them all."
That's when I started going out of my direction
and started trying new things with the camera.
Granville- Love it.
Katrina- But that was something that I thought about
or when we met at the lunch for the first time,
when I met Granville for the first time,
there were a couple of students there,
and I was just sitting back hearing their conversation
and how the students were so impacted by your courses.
And that was something I heard a lot was,
"I want you to make mistakes, I want you to take risks."
It was so inspiring.
I was like, Granville, have you heard of ASU Course Stories?
Because (laughs) you need to be highlighted.
Just really amazing.
Nicolette Miller- So, Tufan,
I work really directly with our success coaches here at ASU.
Tell me a little bit about how your experience
with your success coach helped you.
Tufan- Oh wow.
That's a wonderful question.
I was hoping you would ask this or someone would.
Nicolette- (laughs) Good, I was reading your mind. (laughs)
Tufan- I feel like I was a lucky student
in Arizona State University
because I had a wonderful professor.
I had many of them, but Carroll is here.
He definitely is one of my favorites.
But I also had the best success coach, Katrina.
First of all, she taught me
how to navigate around the system.
Before that, I felt like I was lost from time to time.
I felt much more comfortable
after we had a couple sessions with her.
Anytime I had a question about anything you can imagine,
she was there for me.
If she didn't have the answer,
she would have the source and immediately email it to me.
I knew I could trust her, I could depend on her.
And she was always there.
Somewhere around the second or third year
I was going through some very hard time.
I couldn't find the motivation
that I always had to study and do my best.
So I called her, and at that stage,
she actually handled the situation
better than a success coach.
She was more like a psychologist.
Every time after I talked to her,
I felt like I could do it and I could do it good,
I could do it best.
If I could finish a four years degree
with a 4.0 GPA in 2 1/2 years,
I owe it to Katrina definitely.
I almost cried when she told me she was being promoted
and she was not gonna be my success coach anymore.
Then after her, I know this was rude,
but I did not want any more success coach sessions.
I already knew everything.
She already taught me everything I knew.
And I said you know what?
I'm good.
But yes, yes.
You are sitting next to two of my favorite people
in Arizona State University, Carroll and Katrina.
Nicolette- That's awesome. Katrina- Thank you, Tufan.
Katrina- Yeah, I feel like coaches really form
such a close bond with their students,
'cause you're talking to them every day,
every single day, ups and downs.
So you just grow really close to them.
And the conversation that Tufan was referring to
was this time where he was going through
a really rough time,
that was actually our very first phone call with each other.
So it was like this sort of immediate bond
and need to continue to connect with each other.
And I was very lucky because he was willing
to always answer the phone and connect with me
and take a moment with me and just stayed in touch.
So I'm very fortunate, very fortunate.
Nicolette- Well, once you have your success coach assigned,
they never are unassigned.
Katrina- Yeah. Nicolette- In this case.
So she will always be your success coach
in some form or fashion. (laughs)
Liz- So now, and you guys all got together because of a lunch.
So beyond just being in the class together,
him being in your classes,
you guys, you organized a lunch.
I'd love to know why did you organize the lunch?
And then for Tufan, why did you wanna go?
I think it's unique to have faculty
from online courses reach out to that,
and then have the students actually respond
and wanna show up for that.
Granville- I can't take all the credit.
So my colleagues, Betsy Schneider,
who's the program coordinator,
and Ashley Sakowski,
who is like her second-in-command pretty much,
we've all been discussing ways to build community
in our online program,
because it's really important for people
to come together in some fashion, right?
And I think there's a common misconception
that online programs don't have a sense of community.
So as I was teaching the capstone course,
a number of my students said
that they were going to be visiting Arizona for graduation.
So I mentioned this in one of my faculty meetings.
And so Betsy, Ashley, and I, we all discussed
what's a way that we can sort of bring them together
so that way it's not cutting into their time
or money or things of that sort,
but also providing this opportunity
for the online students coming from other states
and possibly even out of the country,
and then also our online students
who are here in the state of Arizona.
So, yeah, Tufan and a few others had responded to,
you know, that they wanted to attend.
So I was in charge of organizing the event
and trying to find a place
that was kinda central to the ASU Tempe area,
something that's also affordable
because life is expensive (laughs),
and also for newly graduates,
it's like spending money
is probably not what you really wanna do right away.
So, yeah, so just a way for myself and then also my program
to try to build the sense of community
and also allow the students to be seen,
which I think is really, really important,
again, especially in an online environment
where oftentimes they're working very independently
and they may not feel
like they're being acknowledged or seen as much,
but we want to say, we see you guys,
we acknowledge you, we wanna celebrate you,
especially in this time of graduation.
And also just to spend time with each other, so, yeah.
Liz- Very cool.
And then so, Tufan, what made you wanna come out?
What made you wanna come to that lunch?
Tufan- I believe actually
I was one of the first students to respond.
I was dying to meet them, both Katrina and Carroll.
It was a great, great chance for me to meet them in-person.
And he's a wonderful teacher,
at the same time maybe better, he's a great artist.
And in my first class with him, I went through his websites.
I figured out he has a book.
I wanted to see that book.
I ordered one.
I also wanted to get it signed by him.
If he couldn't make it to lunch even for a minute,
I just wanted to see him and have the book signed.
Katrina- Yeah, and the way that I was involved in that,
when I transitioned from being a success coach
to instructional designer associate,
I said, "Tufan, stay in touch.
"Definitely let me know when you're graduating,
"and I'll make every effort possible
"to come out and see you and cheer you on."
And about a year later, he emailed me and said,
"It's time, I'm graduating, gotta see you." (laughs)
But, and he invited me to Granville's lunch.
So that's how I got roped in there.
It was, like I said, really neat,
not only to meet Tufan in-person for the first time,
give him a hug, and, but like I said,
to hear the conversation going on
of their experiences with Granville, it's really cool.
Liz- Really cool listening to the conversation
that you guys were having, what the student was saying,
just everything that you're doing,
'cause it makes me really excited
as somebody in instructional design
to hear about how community-building matters,
and connecting back
to the student's personal experience matters,
and what an impact that has had.
I mean especially hearing the student himself being like,
"I was really motivated because of how open
"and honest and available you were."
And just hearing you even say like,
"I want my students to know that they're seen,"
I feel like that's so important.
They're not just a number, they're a lot more,
which I think is a really interesting to segue
I guess a little bit to success coaching.
Katrina, so you were previously a success coach,
now turned instructional designer.
It seems to be a path.
I was also a former success coach.
Katrina- Yeah.
Liz- A couple of former success coaches
turned instructional designers.
And since we're joined by Nicolette today,
like I want to hear more about your guys' experiences
both as a success coach,
but also from like the leadership perspective,
why is success coaching important?
Nicollette- Yeah, so I think even talking about this course experience
and how motivating that connection was,
that human connection, that human connectedness,
I think sometimes we think about motivation being a thing,
whether it's acquiring some object or what have you.
But I actually think that something that we see
in success coaching is that human connectedness
is such a powerful motivator,
and it's something that we can't hold in our hand.
It really takes really amazing people
and really empathetic people
to connect to each individual and their human story.
We hear from students all the time.
Our success coaches work with students
from before they even start their first class
all the way through to graduation.
And we'll sometimes hear,
especially when we get around that graduation timeframe,
that the impact that their coach
had on their journey at ASU.
And so there's a lot of different roles at the university
that have impact on our students,
but specifically around success coaches,
we'll often hear at the graduation point,
"I couldn't have done this without my success coach.
"They were that person in my corner
"that I always knew I could rely on."
We even sometimes hear,
"Sometimes I would see my success coach calling
"and I wouldn't answer the phone
"because I knew I had to immediately go
"and start working on my assignments."
And so it's pretty incredible the amount of impact
that human connectedness plays a role here at ASU,
especially for our online student population
and how important that human connection is.
It's a really incredible role at ASU
and it's just really exciting to see the impact
that really as a caring human,
and that's really the goal of our success coaches at ASU.
Regardless of what happens for students in their lives
and regardless of what obstacles they encounter,
we want them to know that we really care about them
and we really care about their journey
here at ASU and beyond.
And so I think that's what's really amazing
about the success coach role.
Aubrey- Just to interject, can you kind of go a little bit deeper
into like what is a success coach?
Nicollette- So success coaches really work with students
from before they even start at ASU.
So when they first enroll in their first class,
a success coach will start reaching out to a student.
The goal is really for us
to start building that relationship
with our students really early
so that they know there's someone here
that they can rely on throughout their time at ASU.
And so even walking students through
what to expect with their first course,
how to look through a syllabus
and plan out your time through that course,
how to access all the resources that are available at ASU.
ASU is a huge landscape
and there are a ton of different resources
and really cool resources that are available for students.
Our success coaches are really experts at ASU
around the larger sort of landscape of ASU,
but also they're really great at helping students
set goals and work on time management.
When you first start a degree program,
your life totally changes.
It's like you sort of adopted this baby
and your baby is your new degree program,
and it takes up a lot of your time
and so your life has to change.
And so we're really there to help facilitate that change
and help students navigate it
so that they're really successful
and they achieve their goal of graduation.
So our mission as success coaches
are really to help students achieve that goal of graduation,
but also really there to be a partner
and make sure that we're working through
any obstacles that get in the way
and also that we're there for the good stuff too,
that we get to really cheer you on
when you set that goal to get an A in that course
and you got it.
And so we are often sort of the support mechanism
that a lot of students may not have.
So success coaches are an amazing pairing with our faculty.
I think there's such a interconnectedness
that sometimes we may not always be aware of.
And so part of the success coach's role is really,
so we always talk about
how it's sort of a blend of art and science.
And so what does that mean?
The art is sort of this emotional intelligence
that our coaches have
and how they're approaching conversations with students.
The science is all of the data that we utilize
and leverage in our success coaching process.
And so some of that data is actually feedback from faculty.
And so sometimes we're reaching out to students
based on feedback that's given
through their faculty through an academic status report.
So anytime that faculty is provided,
we are reaching out to students
and making sure that they're seeing that feedback,
and if it's something they need to work through,
that we're there as a support
to guide them through that process.
So an example, there's a lot of different examples,
some of them might be,
I really want you to come and see me during my office hours,
or I really want you to come join my Zoom,
or it might even be us just talking to a student about
this is their first time in college
or their first time approaching faculty
and how to have that confidence
to really start speaking to faculty.
So I have sort of an example of a student
that we listened to on a call actually.
She had originally started with us as a brand new student
and had never attended college previously.
And she was really nervous
just to even approach her faculty.
Well, she worked with her success coach
throughout her time at ASU,
and around the time that she was getting ready to graduate,
she called her success coach and she talked about
how she was applying to grad school
and how her faculty had written her
letters of recommendation
because she had actually done research with faculty.
And so this student had this sort of,
we talk a lot about the student journey at ASU
and that progression and what happens.
And so she really had started
as a really brand new student to,
she actually completed research,
was going on to graduate school,
had developed great relationships with her faculty,
and that really was supported through the coaching process.
And so that's a really important piece.
We also sometimes are reaching out to students
for a variety of other things that could be
maybe you didn't get that grade that you needed,
maybe you failed the course,
and we need to chat about what happened,
let's take stock of what happened
and let's get a plan moving forward
for how we're gonna make sure we're successful next time.
I think I talk a lot about how success coaches
are not the hall monitors of ASU.
We're here to really be your partner
and be your support through this process,
but we also want you to be academically successful
and we have a lot of tools in our bag to help you with that.
So I think that's a big piece of it
and making sure that you're making
that regular progression through to graduation.
Liz- And before we go, before we like wrap up, wrap up,
is there anything important about you, your courses,
your personal artistic life that we wanna highlight
or share with the listeners of the podcast?
Granville- I guess first I wanna say just thank you to Tufan
for being an amazing student.
I wish I can clone you
and have several of you in my classes.
And, yeah, I mean I think it's just,
it's a privilege to be in this position
to teach and educate students about art and photography
and to give them the skills necessary
to create their own artistic practice,
whether that means they wanna be a fine artist
or they wanna go the commercial route,
whatever it is that they wanna do,
but just to give them the skills
that's gonna help them create a strong foundation.
And, yeah, I mean I have some art stuff
that's gonna be happening,
but I don't know if it's relevant.
Liz- I think we're gonna put some links to your art.
I did see your book was already sold out though.
Granville- Yeah. Liz- So I guess everyone's
unlucky there.
But I mean anything else you wanna highlight,
upcoming projects, places where people can find you?
Granville- Yeah, so you can find my website at granvillecarroll.com,
that's C-A-R-R-O-L-L.
I will be having a group exhibition
at the Houston Center for Photography
September 21st through November 19th called "Dust to Dust."
And so it's a really great exhibition
centering around 19th century photographic processes
and thinking about sort of the larger ideas
of life and death and, you know, well, dust to dust, right?
I will also be sitting on a discussion panel
and sharing some work for the SPE South Central
in Southeast Regional Conference
come October 20th through the 22nd,
and that's thinking about photography and new imaginaries.
So considering the photographic medium, where it's evolving,
and also as a collective source in our nation,
how are we evolving and how does art
play into those ideas and conversations.
And, yeah, and there's always new stuff happening.
So find me on Instagram, look at my website.
Always happy to talk.
Liz- What's your Instagram handle?
Granville- Oh, it's Granville_Carroll.
Liz- Very cool, very cool.
Liz- So Nicolette, before we wrap up today,
is there anything else you wanna share
or highlight from the Success Coach Center?
How can people get connected with their success coach?
And how can faculty best support students
and coaches getting connected?
Nicolette- Absolutely.
So I get questions a lot about how as a faculty member
do I communicate to my students' success coach?
Well, the way that you can do that
is by submitting your academic status report or ASR.
That's an acronym that we use for those at ASU.
Success coaches receive all of them
and that actually creates a task for them
to begin reaching out to your students.
So really important to make sure
that you're filling those out.
If you're a student or a parent that's listening,
I think don't be afraid to connect with your success coach.
We really are here to help support you
through your time here.
And so certainly not a person
to be afraid of at the university.
And we really are excited to meet with you and support you
along your journey here at ASU.
Liz- Very cool.
And I was gonna say
Katrina's no longer a success coach anymore,
but your success coaches are very nice people.
They're really great.
We still have a lot of friends back there
who are ready for your calls, ready to help you.
Katrina, is there anything else that you wanna highlight
from your experience as a success coach
and working with students and faculty
to support student success?
Katrina- I think the ultimate thing that I just take away from this
is it is just that ongoing theme of just being there,
listening, helping to provide a safe space for the students.
And if you can do those things,
students will be very motivated to complete the course
and do what you're hoping them to do.
Liz- Awesome.
And so we wanna thank Tufan again for joining us
in this conversation.
Thanks so much.
(upbeat music)
Aubrey- All right, so this is about
where we wrap up for this episode,
but I first want to reiterate
just some of the key knowledge points and perspectives
that we learned from this amazing conversation.
We heard a lot about the importance
of creating a community space,
creating clear instructor presence,
and the impact that has on student success.
We also heard a lot about including student voices
and perspectives in the course,
and how that can support creating
an inclusive and authentic community.
Liz- Yeah, what an incredible conversation.
I don't think that we often,
especially as people who work
on like the design side of things,
we don't really get to hear
the student perspective about the work we've done.
Sometimes we might hear it kinda trickle in,
but I feel like very rarely we get the opportunity
to kind of interview a student and be like,
how did the things that we did with the faculty
impact your like learning experience,
your educational journey?
So it was really cool to hear from the student's mouth
how exactly what we do impacts them.
But I think as an instructional designer,
you can only do so much
to like kind of pre-build in community.
There's a lot that you can do
as we kinda heard from Granville.
Like there were very specific things that he did
to ensure that there was space for that
going into the course.
But he did so much work, like as the instructor,
as the course was going to really draw out that community
and build true authentic relationships.
So I think that that is just so cool.
Aubrey- That journaling activity that he mentioned
that he has the students do I think almost every single day,
I think something like that,
as simple as it might seem or sound,
is something that also just really helps foster
that like student community.
Just writing down your thoughts for the day,
as a student, maybe just where you are in your life
or in that course is just another connection point
that you could have with your faculty and or other students.
Liz- Yeah, and I think like that journal entry activity
that students were doing,
like that is one of those examples
of how planning for community
really helped encourage more open conversations
for faculty and students throughout the course.
And it also really helps you have like a really engaged,
excited professor like Granville,
who wants to be engaged with their students.
And I think it's really easy with online courses
to let it run kind of asynchronously
and let it do its own thing,
but having those dedicated touchpoints
where you're connecting with your students
on a very meaningful level clearly have a huge impact
on this student and his success,
and I think it really highlights
that faculty need to be there and need to be engaged
to really pull out the best of their students
even in online courses.
I think it's really easy for the faculty
to feel like they just blend into the background of Canvas,
but there's a lot of ways that they can be present
and be involved.
And I think it also really shows like how being engaged
support student success.
And I think we see that really emphasized
in the Peralta Equity Rubric,
standards that we've included for our own course design,
but maybe we don't spend as much time
pushing that as we should.
Aubrey- And Liz, can you actually tell me a little bit more
about that Peralta Equity Rubric?
Liz- Yeah, as I'm sure a lot of people have heard us talk about
like Quality Matters before on this podcast
and other places at ASU,
they're one of the big rubrics
for online design and education.
Peralta is very similar.
So the Peralta Equity Rubric
is another research-based course design
and redesign evaluation instrument
to help teachers make online course experiences
more equitable for all students,
which I think for especially online,
especially as they're talking to a student like Tufan,
it's really clear how important that is.
Like the criteria includes addressing student needs
to access technology, different types of support,
both academic and non-academic,
which I think really kinda loops back into
how important success coaches and engaged faculty are.
But it's also about a commitment to inclusion,
addressing common forms of bias,
helping students make connections between course topics
and their lives and with other students.
And then of course,
following our universal design principles for learning.
Aubrey- That sounds amazing and extremely helpful
I'd imagine for any course development.
I just wanna reiterate a point you made about
how important it is for faculty, even success coaches,
to just be really engaged and present with their students.
Like I could just tell from Tufan's passion
about his experience with Granville, even Katrina,
how much like just that experience touched him
on like a personal level,
helped him through even some hard times in his life.
It's so important and you can definitely see
when like the passion from an instructor or a success coach
sort of comes through the course
and like the learning materials
and really just affects the students in a positive way.
Liz- Yeah, and it's just so cool
that there was this beautiful kind of like moment
where faculty kind of reaches beyond the computer screen
and invites students to just come hang out,
kind of cross that like fourth wall, I guess.
Aubrey- Yeah. Liz- And then that Katrina
got to be included in that
and just kind of like a powerhouse of people
that joined us today
who are really dedicated to student success
and building positive relationships and experiences.
So what a cool, what a cool conversation
to get to be a part of today.
Aubrey- It was really cool.
And thank you again to everybody
that did come out and speak with us,
Granville, Nicolette, Katrina, Tufan.
It was really wonderful getting to speak to all of them
and hear their perspectives
and what they kind of put into this course development
just for student engagement.
It really was fascinating to hear about
everyone's different perspectives
with this course experience
and how we were able to see the huge impact
of community building on not just the student,
but faculty and success coach as well.
We do wanna sneak in some plugs for Granville Carroll.
You can visit their website at granvillecarroll.com
or his Instagram at Granville_Carroll.
He also has an amazing book out called "Dark Matter,"
which might be sold out still,
but if you wanted to check it out,
you can check that out through the link in our show notes.
Liz- Yeah, and if you wanna learn more about,
if you're a student or a future student or a parent
or somebody related to somebody who's going to ASU,
your student can always reach out to their success coach
by checking out their MyASU,
finding out who their success coach is.
Currently only available for online students,
but maybe in the future that'll expand
since it's been so successful.
It sounds like Tufan doesn't have any big art projects
or art books out yet,
but we're gonna keep an eye on the horizon
'cause it sounds like he's doing some amazing work
thanks to his course with Granville.
Aubrey- Absolutely, we'll be excited to see that.
Liz- Yeah, we'll catch you guys in the next episode.
Ricardo Leon- Course Stories is available
wherever you listen to podcasts.
You can reach us at coursestories@asu.edu.
Course Stories is produced
by the Instructional Design and New Media team
at EdPlus at Arizona State University.
If you're an instructor at ASU Online,
tell us your course story
and we may feature it in a future episode.
Thanks for listening.