Mary Loder (00:02): Welcome to course stories produced by the instructional design and new media team of Ed Plus at Arizona State University. In this podcast, we tell an array of course, design stories alongside other ASU online designers and faculty on today's course story. Emily Zarka (00:17): It's a completely different skillset to teach on camera, even with something with pbs, when I'm looking directly at camera even is different than traditional acting. And I think some people think that, oh, you're teaching on camera or you're doing the YouTube channel, you're acting or you're performing, you're not a scholar, which is definitely not true. I can't act to save my life. I had to for one of the episodes and I was terrible at it and I kept looking directly at camera because I want people that I'm talking to electronically, if that's in one of as u's online classrooms or if that's the PBS channel or what have you, to feel the connection. Because one of the pedagogies for my teaching is trying to come to students on their level. And yes, you may be across the world, but maybe if I can make eye contact with you, we can create that little patho bond and we can have a better conversation even if it is electronically. Mary Loder (01:08): Hi, I'm Mary Loader, an instructional designer from ASU Online. Ricardo Leon (01:11): I'm Ricardo Leon. I'm a media specialist at the same place. Mary Loder (01:14): Yeah, we work together. Ricardo Leon (01:15): Let's get on with the show. Mary Loder (01:16): Okay. Ricardo Leon (01:19): Hey Mary Loder (01:20): Mary. Hey Ricardo. Ricardo Leon (01:21): , how you doing today? Mary Loder (01:22): I'm doing well. How are you? Ricardo Leon (01:23): I'm doing great. So good. In this episode, I got to do the interview. Mary Loder (01:28): Yes. And I sat behind the scenes Ricardo Leon (01:29): For the listeners out there and the viewers maybe we usually, Mary and I are in the room producing. Yes. While our instructional designer is running the interview. Since it was me this time, I thought we could do it a little bit different. I mainly ran the interview, but you were behind the scenes giving us notes and stuff like that. Mary Loder (01:45): Yeah, sure. I mean, it's fairs fair, right? Ricardo Leon (01:46): Yeah, yeah, yeah. Same to then capture what it is that we do when we're, we're in the room. So, yeah. See, so you might not be able to hear us, uh, listeners, but we are there on every interview. I don't, Mary Loder (01:56): And sometimes you can hear us because we can't help but cackle and then it's while they're talking. Ricardo Leon (02:00): Yes, yes. That's absolutely true. So who am I interviewing today? Mary Mary Loder (02:04): Emily Zaka, who is quite interesting. Yes. Because you recommended Emily because of her presence in video. Cuz she's very intentional with how videos are produced. Mm-hmm. and her part in them and she takes it very seriously, which we adore. But also she's very interesting. Like she's this tiny, cute little thing. , but she loves monsters. Yes. Like that's her thing. Ricardo Leon (02:26): She's a monster expert. She's the, a U'S official monster expert. Mary Loder (02:29): I think she is the monster expert. She's not even just asu. You know what? I think that's fair. She's PBS's Menstrom Ricardo Leon (02:36): Host. Yes. She hosts a, a YouTube series through PBS called Menstrom. It's like totally super awesome and super accessible and really fun. So, uh, did we even get a course for her? Mary Loder (02:46): Well, I know that she does 1 0 2 often Uhhuh and she did talk about Shakespeare in part Uhhuh . So those are courses that she teaches. But the basic 1 0 1, 1 0 2 composition classes are what they are. Yeah. And since she wasn't the course developer, I thought it was very appropriate that we just talked about her experience as the facilitator because it is a super common experience for faculty all over the world, not just at asu. Ricardo Leon (03:06): Yes, yes. And I, I think that she was really helpful and this was the kind of plan all along. And to have her come in and really share some tips and different things that an instructor can do to feel comfortable on camera. It turns out practice. It's the same way you get to Carnegie Hall. Yeah, Mary Loder (03:21): Absolutely. Yeah. And then we can just edit all the things that you make mistakes on Ricardo Leon (03:25): Mary Loder (03:26): And then you can come rerecorded if it's a really bad experience. Ricardo Leon (03:29): Mm-hmm. . Right. And we allow that flexibility to do that. And you edit and we edit, Mary Loder (03:33): Which is a huge piece of using the studio Ricardo Leon (03:35): And it looks great. All right. Let's get to it. Today we have in studio Dr. Emily Zaka to talk to us about her course. What, what's your course, Emily? So Emily Zarka (03:46): I teach a variety of courses actually online here at asu, both undergraduate and graduate. So everything from basic Shakespeare courses and survey courses to more specialized 500 level and up courses like the Gothic of course with my specialty. Mm-hmm. and Posthumanism. Ricardo Leon (04:01): And also listeners might be aware of this, you are the monster expert. Emily Zarka (04:05): I am. I'm a U'S official monster expert and I've actually made my entire career devoting myself to that title, which is, yes. Something I made up basically by myself and then worked hard enough to get the credentials to back it Ricardo Leon (04:17): Up. So when you say you're the official monster expert, Emily Zarka (04:19): They have mentioned me in interviews as the official monster expert, including the asu, you know, news media. Mm-hmm. paper. Mm-hmm. . So I'm like, all right, I can officially say that cuz they're putting the official stamp on Ricardo Leon (04:30): It. How did that come about? How did you become the monster expert? Emily Zarka (04:33): I'll try to give the short version cuz there's of course a long history to everything and I am a literature scholar so I wanna tell stories. But basically I've always loved horror. I didn't think it was something I could make a career of. Went to University of Colorado for my undergraduate work actually with the intention of being in print journalism, uh, print because I didn't wanna be on camera, which is ironic now in many ways. Mm-hmm. and was just taking so many literature electives cause I loved the course so much. Picked up a second major and happened to take uh, two classes at the exact same time. One about romanticism and one topics in popular culture zombies, which was actually taught by the author, professor and general awesome human being. Stephen Graham Jones. Mm-hmm. . So I wasn't aware of his work at the time, but he was the first person who talked to me about horror in a way that I had always instinctually known to be true. (05:20): That it did have so much meaning behind it. And then Dr. Jill Height Stevenson and Romanticism made me fall in love with the genre and identified my first vampire in a poem, . And kind of took off from there and decided that if I was going to teach, which is what I wanted to do, that I wanted to teach about something that I love and why can't there be someone out there who's a voice saying that horror matters And monsters matter came to asu, did my PhD, wrote my dissertation about the undead mm-hmm. in British romantic literature. And during that experience I had some fantastic mentors and members on my committee including, uh, Deney Luer who is a fantastic scholar in many ways. And she encouraged me to start thinking about my work as something that could apply outside of the university as well. (06:08): Mm-hmm. And I was going to give a, basically a TED style talk for ASU opening up their new campus in Washington DC at the end of my PhD career. And one of the smartest things ASU did, so whoever's idea this was, um, for the knowledge mobilization, they had us have multiple meetings with business marketing professors mm-hmm. here at asu. And they were the first people who really took what Dey had suggested and made me realize like, yes, my research is a brand Uhhuh . And I think a lot of scholars, particularly in the humanities, when we're already struggling so much for some people to prove that what we do matters. We don't wanna think about having to package up ourselves or our work in hashtags for lack of a better way of putting it. For sure. And unfortunately that's kind of what where we're at. (06:54): And I shouldn't say unfortunately, I think that that's actually a benefit. I think when you look at your research as a product, not necessarily something that can be sold, but something more people can access Uhhuh if you produce it in a certain way. Right. I think that's just making education more accessible and that's ultimately where to come back to the question . Um, ultimately where I'm trying to go and what I'm trying to do with my work with monsters in general and teaching at ASU and doing everything with PBS and other outside engagement with like study hall and all that stuff. For me it's just making education more accessible to more people. And I don't think that that's a bad thing. Ricardo Leon (07:32): Tell us a little bit more about this PBS connections there. Emily Zarka (07:34): Yeah, so I'm the creator, writer, and host of a show called Motrum for PBS on YouTube. It launched, oh gosh, I can't even remember. I think it launched in 2019 as just the Motrum YouTube channel and now it's part of storied, which is mm-hmm PBS's online humanities content. And that was my Frankensteinian brainchild . Um, when I was doing that little TED talk and basically marketing my work and saying that I wanted to do for monsters what Anthony Bourdain did for food mm-hmm. and like I knew I had to have all these slogans and PBS gave me 15 minutes to essentially cold pitch them, which I don't have a film and media degree so I had no idea or business what that even meant. So I had nothing really prepared besides me and my enthusiasm and sort of my tenets of why I thought that monsters should be something that we're talking about. Mm-hmm. on a large scale. And it kind of spawned off from that Mary Loder (08:31): To be honest with you. I've never watched it. So I'm waiting for her to send the links to her favorite episodes. It's great for the show notes because that will be what I watch. Ricardo Leon (08:38): It's mythological monsters in most cases, but she does touch on like the universal monsters like Frankenstein and Dracula, those types of guys. Right. But also the when to go and uh, just werewolves as a concept. So neat. It's a really, really cool and engaging program. Very Mary Loder (08:52): Neat. Okay. Well now I'm gonna have a new thing to, Emily Zarka (08:57): With PBS and Menstrom that led to the exhumed history of Zombies documentary, which was nationally broadcast and an amazing experience in so many ways. A I'm co-host of Fate and Fabled, which is all about mythology and yeah, I'm one of the humanities people at pbs, which is a great honor and still allows me to do what I really love, which is research and write and teach. Ricardo Leon (09:18): It was so exciting when you came in to do study hall with us. Yeah. Because it's, oh my gosh, I know her . Yeah, I've seen that. I've seen that all the time. I've watched that. I love that show. So it's really cool. Like, uh, it was a fan. Emily Zarka (09:28): Now I love having those moments cuz I think more people can relate to this with C O V D and having to work from home and zoom and all that. But it's very not disassociating. It's a completely different skillset to teach on camera. Even with something with PBS when I'm looking directly at camera even is different than traditional acting. Right. And I think some people think that, oh you're teaching on camera, you're doing the YouTube channel, you're acting or you're performing, you're not a scholar. Which is definitely not true. I can't act to save my life. I had to for one of the episodes and I was terrible at it and I kept looking directly at camera. I just did it right now because I want people that I'm talking to electronically if that's in one of as U'S online classrooms or if that's the PBS channel or what have you, to feel the connection. Mm-hmm. because one of the pedagogies for my teaching is trying to come to students on their level. Right. And yes, you may be across the world but maybe if I can make eye contact with you mm-hmm , we can create that little pathos bond mm-hmm. and we can have a better conversation even if it is electronically. Ricardo Leon (10:26): Right. And so when it comes to kind of uh, your more on ground courses mm-hmm or more specifically the online courses mm-hmm , are you putting as much research and writing into those modules and and that sorts of things as you are into something like as obviously as big of a production for like PBS or or that Emily Zarka (10:46): Kind of thing? Yes and no. So I'll clarify that I have yet to create my own course shell for asu. Mm-hmm. . So I'm teaching from other teacher shells, which is great cuz I get to learn from some of their projects and their lectures. So that's one of the things I love about teaching is learning from my students. So getting to learn, go back to school I guess so to speak, is really exciting. Sure. But it does take a lot of research and work because it's not just enough for me and how I function as a human to just read the assigned readings and look over the syllabus and watch lectures ahead of the class. I do do all that prep before I start teaching, which can be challenging as an adjunct. I might not get my assignment or my contract signed until right before the class starts. (11:24): Mm-hmm. . So I'm often reading through the night to, cause I should be able to answer the questions when the students come to me, even if I'm not the one usually teaching the class. So I do take a lot of time to read not only what's on the syllabus and engage with all those texts, but I of course go on my own tangents. Oh okay. Well they're connecting Frankenstein in this way, but I wanna bring in galvanism so I need to make sure I brush up on that content mm-hmm so I can give more context to my students. And part of that is because I teach all my classes very discussion based and that's reflected actually in a lot of the ASU lit online courses. Discussion boards are inherent Yeah. In whatever format. Yeah. Because you need, that's how you learn, especially with literature, is everyone has their own unique perspective. (12:05): Mm-hmm that if we can talk about our own interpretations of an author of their work of those themes, I think that's how we learn. Not just as scholars but as people to see the world in different ways around us. So yeah, teaching online takes just as much work as teaching in person, if not more so mm-hmm. , um, particularly in discussion based courses because you as the instructor have to work harder to keep conversation going. Right. You can't rely on the awkward pause. Mm-hmm for someone to fill in the blank. You have to more pointedly directly asked questions. Um, and there are some techniques for that. But it's definitely a different kind of challenge to teach in an online space. Ricardo Leon (12:39): Right. And the literature courses, obviously that's, that's all discussion, right? So you go and you read and then you come back to the class and you have these discussions and it's, it's great that you're able to maintain that. Emily Zarka (12:47): And one of the things I encourage cuz we can only as an instructor coming into one of the courses, because of course there's standards that ASU sets and certain goals they want each course to accomplish, which is more than fine, but we're not allowed to make major changes. I can suggest after the course, like let's, and I've done this where I said like I think this text would maybe be more appropriate than this one. Can we flip it out? And that kinda has to get higher approval. Oh I can't go into the gothic lit course and even give, I could give additional lectures mm-hmm. if I wanted to. Or I do do that in mini format, which I can speak about. Mm-hmm . But I can't remove or take away anything or even a certain assignment. I made suggestions to the grading rubric cause I didn't think it was clear enough. (13:28): But that had happened after the course and it had to be approved. So sometimes you do come across roadblocks like that where you're like, dang, I wish I would do this a little differently. But I just try to give grace to my students and take it as a learning moment in myself. And because I can't add or subtract a lot of content, I love me an announcement post Uhhuh . So even outside of the discussion board or the graded space, I'll also like, here's a video of, you know, I just watched this adaptation of Dracula that I thought was really cool if you wanna also check it out. Cause I can't give them more work than the syllabus outlines. Oh right. But I want to, I I wanna be like, let's talk about these other things. Ricardo Leon (14:02): You wanna supplement the educa. Emily Zarka (14:04): Exactly. So I do try to supplement the Shells Mary Loder (14:06): Question from the peanut gallery. Yes. Yes. Okay. I was wondering and just cuz I'm surveying Uhhuh , when you take over these courses that you don't build, do you get like a facilitator guide that kind of walks you through common questions, the rubric, things like that. The tools you're gonna use give you kind of a heads up and a setup? The Emily Zarka (14:23): Heads up that I get is access to the course. I do have the ability to go into it and I can see the assignments and the rubrics if there are any, which online there should be. And there usually are and I can look at the lectures and sort of the modules. But in terms of like handholding guidance or common questions, no that's part of my job as a scholar is I have to be prepared for that. Just like I would in the classroom. Even if I haven't read, God knows when I taught the Shakespeare class, I hadn't read any of that stuff in a very, very long time. I still had to be ready to like answer questions about the merchant of Venice. Mm-hmm. , even if it had been 15 years since I'd read it. There wasn't any, you know, common questions. Ricardo Leon (14:59): One pound of flesh. I remember that one pound not two. Emily Zarka (15:02): I do actually though because I tend to teach the same classes over and over again on online. Which I think is actually fun in some ways cause I get to again get those different perspectives with the same material, which is always exciting. I do keep sort of my own like frequently asked questions or some of those announcement posts. I do save those course to course cause I know those conversations are gonna come up and I haven't been wrong yet. Cuz I mean that's nature. Even though we do have this different interpretations of literature and we should authors do things rhetorically and with their narratives that we end up talking about certain subjects or this moment's really weird in the text, let's talk about it. Mm-hmm. . So I do have some prep that I do, but Right. There's not given to me. Ricardo Leon (15:41): Right. Because you, you have the texts that you're gonna explore and then you can kind of have some, a little bit of mm-hmm. leeway and how you Emily Zarka (15:45): Lecture that. And a lot of the online courses that I teach at least have the recorded lectures, which are again, there's some really strong positives with a lot of that and some room for improvements Of course. And I think Ricardo Leon (15:55): Oh so you, so even the video content as well, it's not yours. Oh no. Yeah. You're really just facilitating the course show Uhhuh. . Emily Zarka (16:01): Yep. One of the contractual things I'm responsible for is like an announcement video of like, hello it's me. You're gonna see another professor's face for the lectures. But I Oh, okay. And I always reiterate like I am here behind the scenes mm-hmm. at all times. Like I am lurking in the discussion boards. I'm here sitting in my Zoom office hours. Even if no one shows up, I'm available by email. Mary Loder (16:22): Well you know what I also liked, she was talking about not only her experience as an adjunct faculty, which I think is a very important experience to express in core stories because not only is she not the course developer right. But it's like her approach when she's given a course, how she studies it, how she becomes the expert of that course, whether she made it or not. There's not necessarily a facilitation guide to give you all the keys of how to work the course best. So. Right. I really appreciated her perspective throughout this episodes from that Ricardo Leon (16:50): Exactly as well. Exactly. There's a spectrum of different types of educators that are involved in online courses and Yeah. You're not always the person who developed the course, but Mary Loder (16:59): You still owe it to our students to give them a good experience. Ricardo Leon (17:01): Yes. And Emily is definitely working her. Oh she's great. Doing like an amazing work to bring the students in and really make them feel connected. And that's, yeah. Mary Loder (17:07): You can tell she cares a lot. Oh yeah. It's wonderful. Emily Zarka (17:12): One trend that I've seen on campus versus online students is I get a lot more office hours mm-hmm. , which makes sense because they don't have necessarily the organic space to ask me questions before and after class. Right. So I think that that's led to some really cool teaching moments for myself, but also hopefully the students that mm-hmm you're getting like a one-on-one with me and sometimes I'll be on for like an hour with some of those students and just talking about their like future career goals and stuff like that that maybe doesn't happen in an on-campus course just because I have so many more students. There is a little bit more wiggle room, especially in the upper level lit courses that are contained to have that really close work. Mm-hmm with like, like the master students, which I love to do. Ricardo Leon (17:50): Are they aware of who you are sometimes. Emily Zarka (17:52): Sometimes. I think so. Mm-hmm. and it's weird and that's the thing about being in the public eye and I think some of my students are like that too because they're like, I think I've seen that and in my head I'm like, well if you've seen Motrum, you've seen me mm-hmm , oh you know, it's not made up well lit. You know, full hair and makeup beat like mm-hmm. me, but it's still me. Right, right, right. Um, so I think some people wanna like dance around it and also I guess maybe not seem creepy. Like I've seen every one of your moms from videos mm-hmm. and now I'm taking your English 1 0 1. Mm-hmm like cool, let's give us something to talk about and yeah, maybe now we have that connection and that you're more willing to ask me to help you on your paper that's being graded. Mm-hmm because you know me a little bit more. That's Ricardo Leon (18:29): Probably an aid to any uh, other faculty out there who are doing these kinds of, I don't wanna call 'em interventions or these kinds of activities. Yeah. That, that is maybe a helpful uh, way in to connecting with their students to have Absolutely. That content. Are you putting any of your content into the courses? Emily Zarka (18:45): Really good question. Some of it happens organically in my English 1 0 1 when I'm teaching. You know how to write a good thesis statement. I'll of course use examples of things like Mary Shelley and like some of the monsters and model that way just cuz that's research that I just have in my brain and what's on my mind. Mm-hmm. then I have gotten in my student feedback at the end of courses that people like that I guess talk to them about my outside research and even outside of ASU stuff cuz I think this is a direct quote, it makes me seem like a real person. Right. And I thought that was really interesting. Ricardo Leon (19:14): It's very interesting. Emily Zarka (19:16): Sometimes I think professors facilitate this or promote it unconsciously, subconsciously. And I think, yeah some of it is just the institution of hier academia and the illusions or ideas students have about it that professors aren't approachable. Mm-hmm and literally I just wanna shake and like I am here to help you. Like let me help you pass this class. Please ask me questions. Yes. I do have a life. Like yes. You know, work life balance is hard for me too. I don't know when you sleep I can barely sleep either. like what's up? Um, so I think that having public scholarship and outside facing work mm-hmm does help humanize me. Mm-hmm for the students. Mm-hmm . And I think particularly for students who are nervous about college for a variety of reasons that I think is comforting. Mm-hmm. or at least humanizing. I always say that there's a reason humans in the humanities, if I can see more like a real person and that helps them learn mm-hmm. , then I'm all about Ricardo Leon (20:04): It. That's so, so interesting because you'd think that because you have the public eye on you that it's almost a facade. Mm-hmm but no this is more of a humanizing thing Yeah. Rather than that kind of distancing thing that you might imagine happening. Yeah. Emily Zarka (20:15): And not to say that there isn't a facade and I think that different scholars and different people who just engage, especially with something like YouTube mm-hmm , um, on a regular basis, it's, I'm not playing a character because it's inherently me and we have outtakes at the end of the monster episodes. Mm-hmm before. That's one of the reasons cuz it is me and I'm just being weird on set. My profession is being weird. Yes. . Yeah. And sometimes it's in front of the classroom and sometimes it's on camera Uhhuh but it's different. Like even this interview right now, I'm not in my normal like hair and makeup cause I did just come from teaching. Some professors might choose to do that but A, I don't have the time. Right. But B, it wouldn't be true to who I am if I came with like a perfect blowout and fake eyelashes and like the whole thing that I do for Menstrom. (20:55): Cuz there is a different level and I think that level is about genre expectation. Mm-hmm and the humanizing element. Mm-hmm . And I think when you're on camera, and again this is just my personal philosophy, I want to be the best representation of myself physically and intellectually because there is this sort of evergreen quality to online material. Especially something freely accessible like YouTube where hopefully some of my students, you know, from in-person classes or online classes, like remember me and think of me fondly. But I think that I have less of a chance, especially on YouTube to prove that. I mean they tell us that we have like 10 seconds basically to get the audience's attention initially most of the time. And I don't want someone to be like, oh well you know, one of her eyelashes fell off like this clearly because it's, it honestly becomes kind of an ethos problem, right. About credibility. Right. Like I'm putting care and effort into my appearance when I'm on camera because I want you to know I'm also putting effort into the content. I'm trying hard to make this, I put the same exact rigor in my research and writing for Menstrom that I do into like my academic monograph and like stuff that would be in peer reviewed journals. And I think that's something both the audience and also other scholars don't necessarily understand is my work outside of ASU isn't easier, it's harder Ricardo Leon (22:11): And you don't have the institution behind you to kind of bolster you up in those ways. Emily Zarka (22:14): No. Yeah. So I gotta do my work. So if that, and again if it makes me feel better to feel like I'm looking my best, then that works for me on camera. Hopefully again just attributes to the energy. And I think though that we do live in a very visual media heavy world and our students are judging us even if it's unconsciously mm-hmm about how we appear on camera. Sometimes it's even just lighting. Like I remember telling other um, colleagues and I think I even said this in a department meeting at one point, I'm like buy the stupid little $10 clip on ring light from Amazon for your covid COVID classes. I should called that for your Zoom classes or even your online office hours. Right. Because putting in that effort shows the students who expect good quality content and can get it so quickly on something like TikTok mm-hmm. that if a TikTok is gonna care that much Yeah. For their 32nd video, I should be putting in that much effort to lighting because you're paying for your education with me. Ricardo Leon (23:04): Right. And then I mean that's completely the philosophy that we have here mm-hmm. in this studio is to always kind of like have that best foot forward in terms of the content that we put out there for the students. Yeah. And that it does matter and it's not a one-to-one. Yeah. That if you look good it's your content's good. Yeah. But it certainly does help support and both support each other. Emily Zarka (23:24): And for me, looking good obviously is different standards for different people. But that's even something like just making sure you have a little powder on so you're not super shiny. Sure. That you're wearing comfortable clothes so you're not always fidgeting and adjusting on camera. Ricardo Leon (23:34): Oregon the lighting Yeah. The camera placement. Yes. The microphones that you can be heard. Mm-hmm. is so important. Emily Zarka (23:40): And that is one thing I will say is I get so excited when I teach an ASU online course that you guys have worked with the English department and like I'm thinking of the Shakespeare class. Mm-hmm There's these amazing round tables. They're not even traditional lectures. Ricardo Leon (23:51): Oh is there ? Mary Loder (23:53): Hmm. . Ricardo Leon (23:55): That was an early one too. We didn't even get all the kinks out but yeah, Mary Loder (23:57): I'm Emily Zarka (23:58): Proud. But, and that is such a difference from some of the other core shells I teach where maybe you have a professor just in front of their laptop, which, and again from probably five years ago mm-hmm. , the quality difference again, the content level is usually the same in terms of academic vigor and importance. Right. But it's, especially with so much visual media content us and students engage with on a daily basis mm-hmm. , it's so much easier to pay attention to those more stylized um, formatting. Right. And again, I think that that's a standard that ASU should expect to be giving our students. Mm-hmm. I think we need to be investing like y'all are here at Ed plus in putting basically our money where our mouth is and if we wanna be the most innovative then you damn better Sure that we are doing good lighting at the very minimum. Right. Right. That we're well liked, that our students can hear us and understand us and want to watch us Ricardo Leon (24:45): And the faculty out there. We can only do so much in terms, I mean we're, we're ready to go. We have all the resources here for you, but you have to come into the studio. Yes. And you have to have that kind of like, kind of feel, feel inspired to come in and make quality content like this. Cuz we, we get so many people that are, you know, especially after Covid that they feel like laptop camera in front of a window is sufficient and it's, it's really not. And we get a lot of content that we're like ah, it's a little questionable and and we'd love for you to come in faculty, this is a commercial part of it and Emily Zarka (25:14): I'll look directly at camera to say Yeah that use them. Everyone who works here is fantastic honestly. And frankly it selfishly takes less effort to come here and schedule time in studio to have the good quality to upload to your courses than it does to, and I do this too, to light up effectively at your own home. Make sure you have childcare that your pets are quiet here. You get to have a well lit, well recorded space with nice people that will get you good content. It's absolutely worth Mary Loder (25:41): It. And you don't have to edit it yourself and you don't have to edit Ricardo Leon (25:44): Yourself. Don't have to edit yourself a big, Emily Zarka (25:45): I can't, I certainly can't do, we Ricardo Leon (25:47): Are full service studio and we also have other self-service areas in here that are still upgrades from the kinds of videos that you can make on your laptop. Emily Zarka (25:54): I've used both. I've actually done a voiceover that um, for I think like exhumed and for the PBS stuff in these studios cuz the quality is so good. Mary Loder (26:01): I do want to pause before you guys get into additional tips cause I know you're gonna go there but mm-hmm. but Emily you talked about office hours and I know that this is a point of contention for students attending and faculty offering their time and people not showing. And yes it could be because you're Emily Zaka from menstrom, but do you use other strategies to get your students to come to your office hours? Cuz I do think that you are really connective but the students don't know that until they come into the office hours. Yeah. Especially in the online courses. It's Emily Zarka (26:33): Different for online and in person. So I'll address them I guess separately for both cases. It's one of those you can like lead, what was it like lead the sheep to water where you can't make it drink kind of a situation. Mm-hmm. , I just try to be as accessible as possible and part of that is not just putting my office hours for online or in-person courses on the syllabus. I'm talking about them every week. I'm like, Hey, I'm gonna be five minutes late cuz I'm gonna go grab a coffee if you're coming like let me know or I'll be there, I'll like have candy. I just, I will bribe them. Um, in terms of less bribing strategies to get them to come. And I am in a unique situation I should say too because I don't have my personal office mm-hmm , um, or a room which I wish I did because I think it'd be helpful to make that fostering that like space, like safe space and learning space, which is Sure hard to do in like a shell. (27:19): Mm-hmm. of a room basically. But one thing I do do is I'll say that I will look at your paper before the final draft is due during my office hours. Mm-hmm. . Oh okay. Yeah. If you want, you're offering back from me, you have to come to my office hours. Mm-hmm and I do tell students, I'm like Hey I get it. If your classes don't match up with my office hours, email me. I will make time for you. I can stay after maybe a little bit. And again, not all professors feel this way and not that they should have to. I think there's already a lot of demands on us, especially as career track faculty or non-tenure track faculty. Mm-hmm we're asked to do a lot for very little mm-hmm . So I'm by no means I'm saying like you don't have to be on 24 7, but I will try to work with students and Yeah. (27:57): If they're struggling with the paper and they need to meet with me at 8:00 AM on a Friday, I'm probably gonna say yes. Mm-hmm. because I do want them to succeed. But part of the reason I'm able to do that is cause I teach English and I don't have hundreds of students like some of the other professors in the intro courses here. Mm-hmm. . So that's one way cuz I say, hey I can give you personalized one-on-one feedback at every step of the way. Not just the assigned stuff in class online. I love to actually offer communal office hours. Mm-hmm. . But I think that especially in the online space, some students feel disconnected from the university experience in general. Mm-hmm. and I can't force 'em to talk to each other, but I think they get intimidated mm-hmm. with being just one-on-one on Zoom with the professor and like staring right at you and you don't have sometimes some of the social cues that we rely on or mm-hmm. (28:44): , you know, that easing into conversation that happens more organically. Right. Although try to recreate it. So I will say like something along the lines of here are my normal office hours, but hey, or if I post one of those announcement videos of like, here's this penny dreadful episode that I think is an amazing interpretation of Shelly's creature. Mm-hmm. , I'm happy to schedule additional office hours or just an informal chat like over coffee if we wanna talk about it mm-hmm. and then I'll like have a poll. I'll use different online polling software, Uhhuh to be like if times at work for you mm-hmm. and sometimes you get unlucky and it's like four people wanna do it in all completely different times. Right. And then I'm like, well I'm committed to it so I will do it. Oh wow. At four different times. (29:18): Oh wow. But there are just so many demands on time in general. Mm-hmm. that gets harder and harder, especially as a new mother and more projects I get offered and take cause I never wanna do ASU a disservice and I do give the exact same amount of time and energy to all of my projects. So that often means I don't wanna paint this like beautiful picture of it. Some parts of it are great of being a non-traditional scholar mm-hmm. and being in the public eye. Mm-hmm. . And some of it's really hard. Like I have two scripts due next week for a shoot and I, we have to film around my teaching schedule and my office hours. Right. And I will probably be working every night after dinner and at least one day this weekend to get those scripts done in time. Mm-hmm. because I have grading and I have lectures and I have everything else to deal with. Right. So I don't work a typical nine to five job and I think a lot of professors don't. But I do think that's one of the drawbacks about being a public scholar, at least my experience so far, is to have the opportunities and to be so accessible to all different people. I have to work very non-traditional hours. Right. Ricardo Leon (30:17): Better. And the measures are different too. The measures of success are probably very different. Yes. Emily Zarka (30:22): definitely , uh, rewarding in different ways. Mm-hmm. . Um, but there's benefits and negatives to teaching both in person and online. Mm-hmm and teaching through ASU and then doing more publicly accessible teaching like with PBS and they're all completely different audiences. We discussed some study hall, um, and some of the rhetoric and composition techniques. I mean, you are having to use different tools and strategies to speak to your audience cuz we know that audience is important in structuring our argument. Right. Try to understand as much as we can and go from there. Ricardo Leon (30:48): And so, so now that you mentioned the pbs, that is getting me thinking like, uh, so what was your relationship to being on camera? So we're we're kind of, oh yeah. Part of this is to to give a little bit of encouragement and some tips to our faculty out there that maybe are uh, nervous about being on camera. So share with us your journey. Yeah. And then we'll talk about some ways that you overcame any kind of problems or, or learned tips and skills. Emily Zarka (31:11): The first thing I'll say is it's definitely a learning curve. Mm-hmm. , I wanted to do print journalism because I did not want to be on camera. Mm-hmm. cause I didn't wanna have to deal with the physical appearance scrutiny. I don't think that obviously happens or at least happens in the same way as does teaching online. Hopefully teaching online you're reaching hundreds or thousands of students. I'm reaching millions of people. Mm-hmm. , I call them students. I'm reaching millions of students online, which is so intimidating in a lot of ways. . So I think honestly teaching did help me be on camera. Mm-hmm. in the sense that I guess I faked it till I made it. I am actually very introverted. Mm-hmm. and I don't, you have Ricardo Leon (31:45): To get weird somehow. Yeah. Emily Zarka (31:46): Right. I, I have reservations about speaking to big groups of people, especially if I'm unfamiliar with those people. And I used to get nervous like every class, even if I taught it 10, 20 times before, you know, the new semester starts and that first time you walk into the classroom. And I think part of that is just experiences that I've had had that haven't been so positive being a younger scholar. Mm-hmm. . Um, and someone who also looks younger. Ah-huh . I've had resistance to students in the past or at least shock. I've actually been questioned by other faculty asking to show my credentials cause I didn't believe that I was actually the professor. Wow. And that was a while ago. But I don't want those experiences mm-hmm to happens. I do try to I guess be more confident and part of that does come back to the presentation element. (32:28): Mm-hmm . But I won't par too much on that. So being on camera was something I was definitely not comfortable with. One big thing that ASU did help me with is initially I was approached by P B S before Menstrom because I'd worked with a Frankenstein bicentennial project here at asu and P B S was doing this project called the Great American Read and they were looking for people to talk about Frankenstein and so they approached ASU and they gave them my name essentially. And I was a PhD student at the time and ASU actually offered PR training. So I did go into the building where Crow is, although I didn't see him. He the man legend. But they actually have a mini, this was before all the ED plus stuff. Mm-hmm . They have a little tiny studio in there and basically just, they just asked me questions. (33:10): Mm-hmm about Frank said about anything on camera and then actually sent me the video and like reviewed it with me about, oh you paused here and you might wanna look at camera for certain times but not at others. They'll let you know mm-hmm . So that was good. Mm-hmm. . So I would say if you can practice honestly even just using your like smartphone and practicing doing it mm-hmm. before you're like in the well-lit space, you have to retakes for things and it gets easier. . Mm-hmm for sure. So I was reluctant but the best thing I can say to get more comfortable in front of the camera is just to do it. Using the resources here in the studio will help immensely. Yes. And then you kind of get used to the process and it's not that scary and yeah, there are lights everywhere mm-hmm. (33:48): and mics in your face and it just becomes part of your teaching environment. Before it felt super weird and like I was just coming and going, but now it's like okay this is another teaching space. This is a different kind of lecture hall. This is a different kind of office hour. One thing that is not for me is I treat the camera like a person. Which feels weird at first. So that means I'm, I'm just gonna do right now. Like I'm trying to talk to you. Like we're in the room together. This is exactly the same level of voice. At least right now I'd be using for an informal conversation. Uh, if we were in person because I want that bond. Mm-hmm. with the audience. That's important to me and I think that makes me feel more comfortable and it makes it easier for me to get what I'm trying to teach across. (34:29): Right. Uh, cause students aren't stupid. They pick up if you feel awkward on camera. And only way to get over that that I'm aware of, especially cuz I'm not an actor mm-hmm is to just keep doing it over and over again. Right. And I will say that that paid off even for pbs, before Menstrom existed as a YouTube channel, I actually did five videos for PBS's Facebook watch for the great American Read. Mm-hmm . And when we launched the YouTube channel, they actually had me go back and rerecord them because I was so much better on camera. Yeah. Because I didn't treat it like a lecture. Mm-hmm. , I treated it like a conversation. Mm-hmm . And I think that teaching online, when you're even giving the same material that you would in a lecture, you have to be more comfortable naturally. That's kind of how my teaching is developed anyway. (35:10): But if I have an in-person class and I'm giving a lecture, that lecture is maybe 15 minutes long cause I'm gonna lose their attention. You have even shorter time. Mm-hmm. on an online course I think, or at least you need to be able to give breaks to pause like, okay now I'm gonna move on to X, Y and Z. Right. You can't just go on tangents. Mm-hmm. In the same way you'd be able to in a classroom. So you have to be a little more structured in that way. But it's has to be conversational. You have to treat the camera like a person. I feel like I'm making eye contact with a person and sometimes I will actually get, this is a weird like tunnel vision, um, with like a teleprompter. All I see is like the camera, like the rest of the studio does not exist to me. It's just me and the camera because I'm so engaged with it as a person. I teach posthumanism. So there's a lot I can also say about Ricardo Leon (35:55): That Emily Zarka (35:56): , um, positives and negative. So yeah. I think that Ricardo Leon (35:59): As a person with uh, legs that are metal, Emily Zarka (36:02): Is it a cyborg? Is it not? But yeah, so I think doing it more is definitely important. Don't be afraid to use a teleprompter. Uhhuh. I think people think that if you're gonna record online content for a course, that you have to just riff. You don't have to and you shouldn't frankly. Yeah. Especially cuz it saves everyone time and energy. If you have a script to read from that's been edited, the writing process is I guess more thorough. That probably one of the biggest differences between my in-person teaching and my online teaching. Mm-hmm. is I'm a definitely more scripted, but I try to write in my own voice still. So it feels conversational. Ricardo Leon (36:34): Sure. And you've had a lot of experience doing that. Emily Zarka (36:36): Yes. And yeah, it gets easier. Literally gets easier every single time. Ricardo Leon (36:40): Yeah. And to put in a plug for our studio here, we have a teleprompter. We do have that ability. And we are also very patient. Yes. And we take multiple takes. There's no problem with that. And I would say though too, if you do your first set of videos, you want to come back and redo those videos later. There's absolutely no problem doing that. And I think that's great and Absolutely. And good advice that you, you gave about review it, check it out. Yes. Watch yourself Emily Zarka (37:02): And practice saying it out loud in front of a camera. Mm-hmm. , even if that is just on your smartphone, you'll hear table reads is something that I will say one of the best things that public scholarship has done for me in working with crash course and working with PBS is as a professor outside of maybe peer review or work with your colleagues, it's very insular in my experience in terms of bouncing ideas around and getting feedback on your writing. Like for instance, submitting an academic monograph. Like yeah maybe I've had one of my friends read the chapter, but it's like an ask. Mm-hmm. . Right. And then the next time I get concise editing feedback is going to be from an actual peer review, which can go lots of different ways and it's so stressful. Mm-hmm. . So I've become less precious about my own work. (37:44): Sure. Because I'm so used to having writing be more collaborative. I write the script, I do the research, but every version, even like for crash course for study hall goes through multiple iterations and we do the table reads. Mm-hmm. and a lot of stuff that we don't pick up on with like print editing will come out and like, this sounds bizarre, this joke isn't landing. So you do need to practice reading whatever your script is. Mm-hmm out loud. Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm before you're in front of the camera or the mic. And then again just, I like to come prepared, camera ready. I'll even do things. I mean y'all saw do even when I was pregnant. Like I'll wear heels even though no one's going to see them. Alright. Because I'm shorter and like makes me feel a little more authoritative. Mm-hmm. and those little things that I would do like in the classroom to feel more confident. (38:25): I also do on camera even though I'm just talking to the camera and maybe they're going to see me for the waist up or what have you. Right. I'm usually not gonna be like wearing leggings. I'm gonna be fully dressed like I would to give a lecture. Mm-hmm. . That's just how I feel more confident and also makes me feel more like, hey this is just another teaching opportunity. Right. It's not just a straight recording. And I think that's a misconception people have too, is that recording online content is so different and Yeah. A little bit different maybe in how you're packaging it, but mm-hmm. it's basically the same. Yeah. Ricardo Leon (38:55): Yeah. And as a plug to those, again, again for the studio, there's so many times where I've had people who come in and they're, they're very nervous about being on camera. Mm-hmm. . But then we get the really nice light on Yeah. and we turn that monitor and they go, oh. And so that, that kind of plays into this idea that like when you're home, even if you're gonna do these, these videos at home, if you look good, you're gonna like watching yourself. Yes. Over. And I know that sounds like vanity, but it is and Emily Zarka (39:19): A little bit of it is. And there's nothing wrong with that. There's nothing wrong with that. No. And good lighting makes a world of a difference. Mm-hmm. , you are who you are. Your face is your face like Right. Mm-hmm. . But if you're well lit, everyone looks better with good Ricardo Leon (39:29): Lighting. Mary Loder (39:30): . So many good Emily Zarka (39:31): Tips. Yeah. I think just practice. Practice. Keep doing it. Mm-hmm be polished and professional still. Even if it's not gonna be seen on camera. And don't be afraid to do it again. That's one of the brilliant things actually of recording online lectures in someplace here where it's going to be edited. I know the lighting is good, I can do the retake. Mm-hmm. . Um, cause I do end up having to film some social reads and stuff for PBS at home and it takes so much longer. You drop one word, you have to like stop the video and restart mm-hmm. and do the whole thing again. And here it's just easy. Mary Loder (40:03): I actually love giving that to my faculty. When I recommend them to the studio is like, don't think this is it. This is your tryout. Mm-hmm. , I'm gonna try things on. I'm gonna see what works. I'm gonna watch it. I'm gonna decide that I hate the entire thing or I love parts of it. Right. And then I'm gonna go redo the part that I want to do. Emily Zarka (40:22): That'd be the other thing too I would suggest is don't wait. You guys are super helpful. And you'll say like, Hey, that didn't sound right. But again, cause I've been doing this for long enough now if I know I make a mistake, I'll be the one to say like, let me do it again. Or I won't even say, let me do it again. I'll just pause and go back to the start. Like I can recognize when something's off and instead of waiting for you to tell me mm-hmm. , I'm just Ricardo Leon (40:42): Gonna do it again. It's pretty magical to watch you in the studio here. Like, okay, that's a 17 a minute record for a 15 minute video that is like, there's no fat on the, your performance. You know? Exactly. Oh that was a bad take. I'm gonna do that over again. Emily Zarka (40:56): And again, that's experience. I was no way like that. Mm-hmm. initially. In some ways it's, I probably lecture better mm-hmm. on camera than off because there is not, there's not room for error. But I get into such a different mindset in some ways because of the things like the lighting. It's like all these cues that I'm like, all right, let's do it. And yeah, I do have different voices. They're not significantly different and sometimes that comes from the producer. My reads for menstrom are slightly different than my study hall just because of what they want and inflection and C content. Right. All that. So use your voice. It's a tool. Yeah. So much in the same way you'd use like punctuation marks. I talk with my hands a lot. So if you do that, don't stop. You're gonna look stilted and you're gonna look unnatural and that's not gonna read well. So talk with your hands if you need to and go slow. I talk very fast so I do have to talk slower on camera a little bit too. So, but it's all comes just from repetition from doing the same thing over and over again. Ricardo Leon (41:52): Yeah. I mean just like any expertise. Yeah, exactly. Well Emily, thank you so much for joining us today on core stories. Uh, is there anything other than the millions of things, no specifically the millions of things that you do that you would like to plug? Emily Zarka (42:03): Obviously just my work with PBS and Motrum, you can follow me on Twitter. I know Twitter at uh, Dr. Emily Zaka. Just latest and greatest stuff that I'm doing. Mm-hmm. . Cause things are always changing. But I would also like to say, especially for anyone who teaches here at asu, if you're watching this, please reach out to me. I know that being on camera is a really weird experience. I know that if you're even considering public scholarship it can feel very scary. And I can't only speak for my own experience, but don't be afraid to reach Ricardo Leon (42:29): Out stars. They're just like us. . Mary Loder (42:31): Thank you. Thank you. Ricardo Leon (42:37): That's so cool. She's so cool. Mary Loder (42:38): I really like her a lot. Yeah, she's great. We had a whole talk after she was done with the episode, by the way, about like go bags and like Oh yeah. Being ready for the zombie apocalypse, which I just love about her cuz us too . Yes. Ricardo Leon (42:49): Cuz that, and I've definitely heard the Zombified podcast is one that she has Yes. Been a guest on. It's its produced here at ASU and it's something worth checking out. Mary Loder (42:58): Yeah. Yeah. We'll link that as well. Oh, cool. Ricardo Leon (43:00): Yeah. All right Mary, so what do we want the listeners to do? Mary Loder (43:02): Like listen, subscribe, tell your friends and family. Absolutely. Yeah. And also if you're at the LLC and you attend our sessions, vote for us. Mm-hmm. just saying. Yeah. Feel like we should plug anytime we can. Ricardo Leon (43:14): I'm not just saying it, I'm being very direct about it. Vote for us, Mary Loder (43:18): You . Vote for us please. Seriously. Ricardo Leon (43:21): Alright, goodbye. Mary Loder (43:23): Bye. Ricardo Leon (43:27): Course stories is available wherever you listen to podcasts. You can reach us At Core stories@asu.edu course Stories is produced by the instructional design and new media team at EdPlus at Arizona State University. If you're an instructor Ricardo Leon (43:40): At ASU online, Ricardo Leon (43:41): Tell us your course story and we may feature it in the future episode. Thanks for listening.